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MP calls for security cash for Jewish schools

3:07pm Wednesday 21st May 2008

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By Caron Kemp »

Extra security at Jewish schools should be paid for by the Government, according to Hendon's MP.

Andrew Dismore made the request in a House of Commons debate on anti-Semitism last Thursday.

"The threat and reality of anti-Semitism is with us. We are talking not only about Islamic extremists, but about the far right, and sometimes about plain nutcases."

Andrew Dismore MP

The Labour MP complained no money had been ring-fenced for security at Barnet's Jewish schools, despite increasing anti-Semitic attacks.

Mr Dismore raised the issue following recent revelations that some schools in the borough were asking parents for voluntary donations to meet security costs.

He argued that, in a borough with more Jewish schools than anywhere else in the country, the problem was serious.

"I visit schools all the time and the students - from the little kids to sixth formers - tell me time and again about the anti-Semitic incidents they experience.

"The threat and reality of anti-Semitism is with us. We are talking not only about Islamic extremists, but about the far right, and sometimes about plain nutcases.

"Jewish people are the only community in our country who live in a permanent state of siege and underlying fear."

In the last academic year Menorah Primary School in Woodstock Avenue, Golders Green, spent more than £20,000 on security guards, according to the MP.

Rosh Pinah School, in Glengall Road, Edgware, spent £15,000 on alarms and a similar sum on security guards. Mathilda Marks Kennedy School in Hale Lane, Mill Hill, reported similar figures.

Hasmonean High School, in Holders Hill Road, Hendon - the borough's only Jewish secondary school - spends £90,000 each year on security guards.

Mr Dismore said: "We had a debate a while ago about school admissions and schools charging parents to allow their children to attend.

"It is a voluntary contribution, but Jewish parents are expected to pay towards the cost of ensuring that their children are secure at school.

"It is not fair that parents are expected to pay for what every other parent takes for granted - the security and safety of their children at school."

The Government allows a school's capital funding to be used for security but it is not ring-fenced. Currently, no Barnet school uses Government money for security.

Hasmonean headteacher Rabbi David Meyer said: "Unfort-unately we live within a day and age where Jewish students do need security in order to be able to study and at this stage in time the full burden of funding is on the Jewish community.

"Really there should be an argument that every child has an absolute right to be protected and as the broader community we should be funding that."

The debate coincided with a string of attacks on synagogues across London, which were daubed in anti-Jewish graffiti.

Brian Coleman, London Assembly Member for Barnet and Camden, said: "Coupled with the vote for the BNP in the recent elections this anti-Semitism is a worrying trend and cannot be tolerated."

A Government spokes-man said it had no plans to give Jewish schools extra funding.

Do you think the Government should fund extra security for Jewish schools? Have your say below and vote in the ballot.


Your Say Your Times

Stu, says...
4:27pm Wed 21 May 08

No taxpayers should not fund Jewish schools for security. The anti-Semitic graffiti could have been put there by a Jewish person.

Rog T, Mill Hill says...
7:38pm Wed 21 May 08

Dear Stu, is your surname "Pid". I would be very interested to see any details of cases where Anti Semitic behaviour was caused by Jews. I hardly think Jewish parents would like their children to see obscene grafitti as they go to school. As a parent, it is clear to me that one of the most primal instincts is protection of your children.

I'm a Roman Catholic so I'd like to think I'm unbiased. I believe that all children have a right to a safe education. Jewish schools seem to require a higher degree of safety than other schools. As a society we have a responsibility to organise it. I'd expect the government to be supportive of any minority facing a situation where Children were threatened. Surely that is not a political position, it is just being adecent human being?


Roger, Burnt Oak says...
7:59pm Wed 21 May 08

I respect that everybody has their own opinion and that the public are able to weigh up the relative merits of each argument.

That being so, does Rog T really have to make offensive personal comments about people who post comments, or is he just a cybor bully?

Beverley, Derbys says...
8:34pm Wed 21 May 08

In reply to Roger, I would like to point out that it is a well known tactic for anti-fascists, some of whom are indeed of the Jewish persuasion, to spray anti-semitic or racist symbols in areas where it is believed that the British National Party are making electoral headway. The reasons are obvious; voters will make the assumption that the two are connected and will not vote for the BNP. Now, whatever your political persuasion or personal beliefs, I am sure you will agree that this is wrong - if the BNP are not wanted in an area, let the electorate says so without being misled.

So I do think it is possible that this graffiti might have been caused by those wanting the security fencing. Or it might have been a semitic attack - nobody knows but don't dismiss Stu's viewpoint as stupid just because you personally have not heard of such an occurence.

Joseph, End Of The World says...
9:31pm Wed 21 May 08

I don't understand, why should us gentiles have to give money to a school that actively excludes our children? Why should we fund racism on our own soil? Catholic schools are forced to allow jewish students, jewish schools should be forced to allow gentile students! Unless of course, they stop taking the tax payers money.

Bess, says...
9:15am Thu 22 May 08

I think we are forgetting that we are talking about children. Defenceless
children. I would like to think if any minority was subjected to racism or any threatening behaviour in any way that the government would step in. Those individuals making it a political discussion ought to be ashamed of themselves. It is about protecting those most vulnerable, those who cannot protect themselves, those who need our help. If it was your children being bullied by the very society we live in would you not be demanding help? Think about what you are saying - you are denying those who need protection the most cos of your political view. I sincerely hope such individuals never need help or protecting.

Jay, London says...
9:19am Thu 22 May 08

I 100% agree with Bess. Well done - finally someone with some sense! They are children - they need protecting - protect them! End of!

Rog T, Mill Hill says...
1:02pm Thu 22 May 08

"Roger, Burnt Oak", or whatever your name is (I think a few of us can guess). I happen to find "Stu"'s suggestion that Jewish People would daub such graffiti, purely to extract cash from the taxpayer, pretty offensive. I am surprised that this comment doesn't bother you.

I asked for any examples of this and lo and behold none are posted. By the way Joseph, my kids go to RC schools in Barnet and being a Catholic is the main selection criteria. And Dave, I think all kids should be protected from any form of bullying or intimidation. Why do you need to name specific minorities, who I would guess are far more on the receiving end of such treatment? I thoroughly agree with Bess.

Bess, says...
1:58pm Thu 22 May 08

Thank you Roger and Jay. Its nice to know that some adults actually behave like adults.

It is our job to protect children. Schools should be a safe place and if unfortunatly the society we live in can't provide that than it is up to us to intervene. We are after all the adults, the wise ones, the ones that people turn to for safety, security and well being. It is not just about race but being able to provide well-being for children. Open your eyes people and lets start makin our schools safer places.

Ben, Hendon says...
4:29pm Thu 22 May 08

I thought the Government have already promised to do this. See Dismalls website from October.
http://www.andrewdis


moremp.com/c4b915fd-


c74a-c1f4-cdc7-a0c5c


73d59fd


Does this mean our Labour Government and MPs are breaking their promises

Roger, Mill Hill says...
5:37pm Thu 22 May 08

We are all of us adults and able to assess the strength or lack of strength of an arugment or a comment.

What is not acceptable is to make offensive personal comments about people entering into this discussion.

Rog T should have his say on the on the merits of the story, he might choose to give a counter argument to some of the views expressed, but what makes him a Cybor Bully is the way he makes offensive personal remarks about individuals who dare to post a view to which he disagrees.

By doing this he demonstrates that he is nothing but a paper thug.


Paul, 195-346 says...
5:41pm Thu 22 May 08

What I findd funny is the way Rog T always has to have the last word.


Stu, says...
9:18pm Thu 22 May 08

Hey Rog you wanted an example watch this video - http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=HLHgF_VVv
lQ
Put that in yer pipe and smoke it!

St William, of Norwich says...
11:02pm Thu 22 May 08

Well at least their schools aren't being cluster bombed.

Ben L, says...
9:21am Fri 23 May 08

I think that everyone is losing focus on what is really important - the children. Lets not forget the point of the article and the point that no matter what race, religion or colour, every child has a right to security. The only people missing out are the school children whose very safety is being threatened. Lets act now before its too late.

Of course the Government should be helping just like they should be helping if any other schools needed security. This constant bickering is helping no one. how you can look at any childs face and deny them protection is beyond me. IF it was your child being threatened would you want people to ignore it?

Chris, says...
9:31am Fri 23 May 08

Hear Hear!! The argument is not about religion it is about adequate protection in our schools. If these kids safety is being threatened for goodness sake give them some extra security. how there is even a debate about it is says everything about our society!

Calmdown, NW11 says...
11:34am Fri 23 May 08

This looks like hysteria to me, over a bit of graffitti. These sort of graffitti daubers are mindless idiots at the bottom level of society, looking to seize on anything different about others to hang an insult on, and make themselves feel superior. Jewishness is just one such difference, and a conspicuous one locally. If they lived in Ireland, they'd be daubing anti-prod or RC slogans. Wouldn't it be better to catch the daubers, who are probably just the usual idiots? What terrorist has actually started out as a graffitti dauber? And, indeed, when was a Jewish school in this country actually ATTACKED? The only school attacks I know of have been on Gentile schools. e.g Dunblane. I don't hear anyone else screaming for protection. The "war on terror"/anglo-Americ
an foreign poicy puts us ALL under threat; I see no reason to give Jewish schools extra protection.

Marco, New Barnet says...
12:46pm Fri 23 May 08

This is another case of parents' hysteria over a lesser threat than is actually perceived. What about the other schools in the borough where students are brining in knives and drugs? Each school faces it's own problems and I think it's grossly unfair to discriminate funding based on religion.

dani, golders green says...
1:53pm Fri 23 May 08

What is grossly unfair is that anyone would argue against this move.
There is no question that anti-semitism is on the rise. Jewish children should be protected from that threat. This isn't some made up notion, it's plain reality and our children should not suffer.
This isn't about the graffiti, it's about a much wider problem. And denying the basic right of safety and security to our children is perpetuating that problem.
There are stats on attacks on Jewish schools, on Jews in general too. But what are we waiting for? A massive terrorist attack before we think that actually it's time to put in place extra measures? Shame on you.
Every child should be safe at school. From racist attacks, knife attacks, gun attacks, the lot. Rather than deny Jewish children this absolute right because other bad things happen in other schools (a profoundly weak argument) the government should ensure everyone is protected. It's a sad world we live in. Why make it sadder by failing to realise the issue at hand and supporting a way of making it better?

Janine, says...
2:01pm Fri 23 May 08

Well done Dani! couldn't have said it better!

Calmdown, NW11 says...
3:01pm Fri 23 May 08

Let's get back to the basic question here, which is who should PAY for the extra security measures Jewish schools would like. Given the current evidence, i.e that all terrorist attacks so far have been on "strategic" targets such as the transport system, I do not see that state funding is justified. (Incidentally, I would be interested in the details of these "attacks" on Jewish schools -- broken windows, graffitti, even arson? Everyday events, regrettably, and not confined to any one sector). We did not protect Protestant schools against the IRA, and the same logic applies here, i.e Jewish schools are not an important strategic target; and Al Qaeda are bright enough to know that blowing up primary school children is not great PR. And what next? Are the nation's taxpayers going to be asked to fund extra security for synagogues? Jewish schools and syangogues have been running their own security measures, for their own reasons, for a long time now: this current spate of hysteria is, in my opinion, simply an opportunistic attempt to move this cost burden onto the shoulders of the taxpayer, using the kind of emotional blackmail politicians are seen as vulnerable to. It should, I believe, be resisted.

Stu, says...
4:00pm Fri 23 May 08

Jewish Student Admits Putting Swastikas On Her Own Door

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=HLHgF_VVv
lQ

Joseph, Southern Lands says...
6:41pm Fri 23 May 08

Yeshiva/Jewish schools should get Gentile money, when they allow gentile students in, which they do not! I'm not saying they should change their curriculum, but be open to all religions like Roman Catholic schools are forced to be.

If these schools want our money they should have a diversity and anti-segregation class on their curriculum, as well as accepting students of diverse faiths including Muslims, like Catholic schools do (atleast in America). Hate is caused by segregation.

Rog T, Mill Hill says...
7:27pm Fri 23 May 08

Stu,
I checked out your clip. I sort of assumed that you might have something a little bit closer to home. If you have to go to America to find a case to back up your argument, then I suspect that this is not something that happens in Barnet too often. It seems to me that if you the best evidence for your outrageous claim is a an attention seeking Yank with mental health problems, then you haven't got much of a story to tell.

I'm sorry if that view offends anyone, but I hardly think the clip has much relevance to Barnet. I'd be very interested to here the view of our council leader on this. I am sure we will.

Phil Crowther, Times Series Newspapers says...
9:40am Sat 24 May 08

I'm reluctant to shut off this debate as the issue is important and relevant to a great proportion of the community, if not all of us.

However the first bit of name-calling just got deleted.

Please stick with the Terms & Conditions, everyone.

Comments that question the judgement of others are fine. Playground insults are not.

Phil Crowther,
Editor.

Stu, UK says...
10:26am Sat 24 May 08

Sorry Phil. This kind of story gets under my skin because I believe its complete nonsense.

Rog T, Mill Hill says...
11:02am Sat 24 May 08

Stu, one thing interests me. Do you live in/near Barnet. You put your location as UK?
Most people round here put the area they ive in on the entry. If you don't, do you live in an area with any Jewish schools?

I'm just interested in why this is getting under your skin so much.

Stu, England says...
11:35am Sat 24 May 08

Rog I live in England that's all you need to know. It gets under my skin because Jews are made out to be a persecuted minority in England which is ridiculous and couldn't be further from the truth in my opinion.

Rog T, Mill Hill says...
2:25pm Sat 24 May 08

Stu, I actually agree with you in one respect. I don't believe Jews in England are a persecuted minority, I know quite a few local Jewish peopel and I've never heard any of them say they are. That is not the issue though. Jewish schools do suffer a higher degree of vandalism than other schools, warranting higher security costs. The issue is who pays the state or the parents. I happen to think that security at any state funded school is not an issue for the parents. The reason being that a well organised campaign could make a school untenable if the parents had to pay the costs. In a free society that is unacceptable. Can you answer me a question. What would you rather see, a jewish school shut down as a result of a concerted campaign of vandalism or government assistance to ensure that peoples rights are guaranteed?

By the way, in response to my question of whether you are local or not, I guess that's a no.

graham, barnet says...
3:36pm Sat 24 May 08

Jews are a minority in England and they are persecuted for being as such. We're not talking to the degree we've known in history but it's certainly getting worse and is that what has to happen before someone takes the problem seriously?

David Miller, Barnet says...
5:17pm Sat 24 May 08

Can you please refer to "Jewish people" rather than Jews? "Jew" is used by some as a derogatory term. I know that is not the intention here (at least I hope not) but all the same some of us find it offensive.

M. Grainger, Finchley says...
7:06pm Sat 24 May 08

No.If security is required for Jews schools it should be paid for by the school.

Stu, England says...
11:27am Sun 25 May 08

The Zionist Human Rights Commission in Canada has just been exposed posing as neo-nazi's on internet websites. Extremely shady behaviour!

http://watch.ctv.ca/
news/mike-duffy-live
/tuesday-may-20-2008
/#clip53980

Rog T, Mill Hill says...
12:37pm Sun 25 May 08

Stu, I just watched your clip and I agree with your view that what the Canadian Human Rights commission were doing was wrong. It was quite a disturbing clip and no fair minded person would ever condone such behaviour. I have also just looked at the CHRC website www.chrc-ccdp.ca and I can see nothing to indicate that this is a zionist organisation - what lead you to make this allegation? It is a department of the Canadian govenrment. I don't think you help your case by implying it is a zionist organisation, because it will soon become clear to anyone looking at the clip. Thanks for posting the clip though, it certainly gives us all food for thought on what some people are up to on the net. Lets hope that everyone posting on this forum is being genuine and honest in what they say even if we don't agree with each other.

Stu, England says...
1:51pm Sun 25 May 08

Rog the bloke behind this is Richard Warman a Zionist, not sure if he's Jewish but he's definately a Zionist.

By the way the reporter who exposes this on the video is Jewish, so good on him.

Rogue, Trader says...
5:36pm Sun 25 May 08

I wish I had time to read through and debate the tivia when I'm at work.

But I guess that's why the content of the Barnet Times never managed to swing any elections.

Instead I have to wait until I get home before I can wind up the left wingers out there.


Shlomo, Barnet says...
12:36am Mon 26 May 08

Stu wrote:
No taxpayers should not fund Jewish schools for security. The anti-Semitic graffiti could have been put there by a Jewish person.
What a load of rubbish, you really know nothing about nothing. LOL!

Frank, Barnet says...
10:57am Mon 26 May 08

I am absolutely shocked to read of intimidation of children because they are Jewish. So much for our tolerant multi-cultural society. I am also amazed that anyone could object to Jewish schools being money to help with security. Forget about 'Jewish',this is a simple matter of dealing with some highly unpleasant and serious crime. And, if anyone is worried, about the money, I suspect that Barnet's Jewish community pays considerably above average in taxes, both local and national.

Rog T, Mill Hill says...
7:41pm Mon 26 May 08

Stu, I looked up Richard Warman on Wikipedia. It says he's not Jewish, although we all know wikipidia can be wrong. Although I'll stand by my original statements above that it hasn't much relevance to school security in Barnet, the whole story is very interesting and I'd urge anyone, whatever side of the fence they sit on to check it out. I will certainly be keeping an eye on this story as I am very interested in what I would call misuse of the Internet. I certainly think that Richard Warman is guilty of incitement and the same rules should apply to him as anyone else. This story to me looks like he is a "rogue operator" rather than part of a widespread conspiracy. I suspect that he's damaged anyone who has dealt with him in good faith. I'm not a big fan of dodgy lawyers full stop and he certainly falls into this category.

Thanks for the info, I know we don't at all agree on the main topic, but you've certainly flagged up an interesting story which I will be keeping an eye on.

Huw, Barnet says...
3:09pm Tue 27 May 08

Well Rog, you know my solution to this. Segregation in schools is inherently wrong, so there shouldn't be any Jewish schools (or RC for that matter), everyone should be educated in the same way at a uniform (and hopefully high) level of quality.

On the other hand I wouldn't want my kids going to the same school as Stu's.

Oh, NO !!! says...
7:42pm Wed 28 May 08

Oh NO, Not Rog T again !!

He posts so much, I think he gets pleasure from reading his own diatribe.

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