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'Sidelining the paper'
12:38pm Friday 18th January 2008
Comments (94)
I WAS in Watford over Christmas and bumped into a former senior official at Vicarage Road - an ex-director who, as with many down the years, was out of pocket on the experience (something of a rarity these days).
He seemed pleased to see me and claimed my ears must have been burning recently. Apparently a group of mature fans were talking about the news on Watford FC as it appears in the Watford Observer.
They contended nowadays the lack of news and any real relationship between the two bodies "only serves to demonstrate what a good journalist Oliver Phillips was".
It was nice to hear but I felt a little uncomfortable.
More recently, a friend drew my attention to the Watford Observer website and some criticism directed at the current writers on the subject of Watford FC and reporting on rumours.
Apparently, the standards have dropped "since Oliver Phillips graced the pages".
All of which is very pleasant and well meant. Yes, I like to think I was a good journalist but the fact Watford and the Watford Observer do not have a good relationship is not a reflection on the journalists who followed me.
They may have approached certain issues from a different direction and may have opted not to go too hard on certain aspects in the early days after I left, but their intentions were good, being Watford fans by heritage who would have preferred to have maintained the coverage at the old levels - levels that were established more than 120 years ago.
They have been unable to do this, frustrated at every turn.
For years, certainly since 1928, representatives of this newspaper have talked exclusively to the manager after the match and then had at least one hour in a one-to-one with him during the week. I know that policy was applied inconsistently once I had left. Now the manager will not even give out his phone number.
Further, there was an increase in the tendency during my final years for the club to tell their minions to hold back certain stories before slipping them in on their website on a Thursday evening, after they knew the paper had gone to press.
So much for the family club One day a fuller reflection on this era in the history of Watford FC will perhaps provide a more revisionist view on the personalities, politics and progress, and I hope to be around to contribute my two-penneth.
Yet, I think the time has come to clear up any misconceptions.
To be frank, I would have had a hard time dealing with today's Watford FC and their attitudes.
I am quite sure that long before now I would have brought down the wrath of the extremely thin-skinned upon my head and been told about "the very personal criticism of our personnel and unsupportive and unfair comment in your writings", a phrase used last week when the club again refused to co-operate with this newspaper.
It is the latest in a succession of spats and frankly I cannot see much changing.
We only have to go back to the time when the Watford Observer was banned because we had the temerity to publish fans' criticism of the manner in which Watford sold the Elton John concert tickets.
Newspaper representatives were summoned to the club, were harangued and then ushered to a small room where they were left to contemplate their sins and given a few minutes in which to decide to meet the club's extravagant demands for an apology.
I doubt if the club officials, chairman Graham Simpson and chief executive Mark Ashton, would have treated officials of the club's sponsors, Loans.co.uk, or Watford Council in the same manner but it was indicative of the shape of things to come.
It appeared they aimed to control the press. With my departure imminent, the club's attitude was obvious - do as we say or we will withdraw co-operation.
This newspaper was banned from the ground - a particularly heavy-handed action consistent with what the chairman later admitted in private "was a case of me going right over the top".
Yet, two weeks later, Simpson apologised to the fans over the handling of the sale of those concert tickets. He admitted the club was wrong but, significantly, his apology did not stretch to include the Watford Observer.
As I wrote upon my retirement, it appeared to me the club was trying to bring the newspaper into line, seeking to make it an adjunct and organ of support, as I see it, reducing the paper to little more than an extension of the club programme and website.
Since then, they have been able to cast the newspaper in the role of party-poopers because the club has had success and, as that is what the supporters care about most, any criticism can be made to seem churlish.
There is a tendency when things are going well to think the club can do no wrong just as it can do no right when struggling, yet both attitudes are wide of the mark.
Watford have won promotion and have the strength to do so again enabling a further stint of "troughing it" in the Premiership.
These factors have helped the financial stability - they certainly haven't had a new share flotation for at least 22 months - and they have further boosted their coffers by the sale of Ashley Young, whose champion Chris Cummins battled to keep him at Watford when his two-year scholarship expired. Cummins should really be made an honorary vice-president of the club.
So, when everything in the garden appears lovely perhaps the club feels able to flex muscles and pursue goals.
Of course, people will argue times have changed and I am an old buffer who knows little nowadays, stuck in rural France.
In fact, I know much about the goings-on behind the scenes and receive regular tut-tutting and head-shaking from the very numerous and credible disaffected, but I will keep my powder dry for the moment.
This article is not a criticism of Watford FC but a defence of the maligned journalists who are dealing with a Soviet-style regime that brooks no criticism and any defectors are sent to a legal Siberia, most of them signing confidentiality agreements on their departure from the club. For instance, Watford's longest-ever serving player, Nigel Gibbs, was unable to comment upon leaving the club.
The apparent policy of silencing the critics even saw Watford close down their own website forum for fans and, at one stage, trying to change the spokesman for the Supporters Trust because he (Pete Fincham) was critical of some club decisions.
Yes, times have changed. There used to be a couple of local newspapers and a brace of radio stations following the Hornets. Readers would make their views known, providing their names and addresses. Now it is websites, mailing lists and a scramble for morsels of news on all things football.
Agents plant stories, fans write strident criticisms protected by the anonymity of nom de plumes. Add to this a plethora of club press releases, some of which make you dizzy upon reading because they contain so much spin - "The Daily Goebbels" as one Watford press officer described it.
On reflection, I believe the seeds of an attempt to diminish the newspaper's ability to influence supporters were sown back in the Luca Vialli days when I was portrayed as a negative figure in the clamour that greeted the Italian's appointment.
Yes, it is a different world and, in common with many of my generation, I am not sure it is a better one.
Of course, we had spats before but in my day we knew the cause. I cannot really comment on Aidy Boothroyd's hot and cold treatment of the Watford Observer and my former colleagues are in the dark, because Watford have not specified the reasons for this latest posturing.
However, imagine this newspaper refusing to feature Watford FC and their matches because the club treats our personnel appallingly. I think the charge of us being unprofessional would be extremely valid. That works both ways.
Returning to Boothroyd, as the manager matures and progresses through the football world, he will need to develop a far less sensitive skin.
I know a source told Kevin he was viewed within the club as "the enemy" and I find that a touch unreal. Kevin and Anthony Matthews will be at Vicarage Road, cheering on the Horns as they have done since childhood, long after Boothroyd and the West Bromwich Albion, Arsenal, Queens Park Rangers and Ipswich supporters in the media department have moved on.
No, it is not easy covering Watford now as even The Daily Telegraph's Tony Francis discovered when writing a weekly article on them. He actually referred to "paranoia".
For instance, take Anthony Matthews, whose ambition was to cover Watford FC but, after only one season following my departure, opted to concentrate on the sports editor role because he could not stand "the politics". At one time he told me: "They almost cause you to lose the will to live."
On one other point, my former colleagues have been criticised for printing rumours. Well, I collected every printed item of gossip and every website rumour every week and put it before the manager and let him comment. And I printed the results and no one complained.
Yet, some 15 months back, there were rumours and website claims about Marlon King not being injured.
It was everywhere that week. I even read about it in France. Kevin duly asked for a club comment and was refused, so he printed the rumour and discussed and dismissed it himself.
The next thing he knew, he was being pilloried in a pathetic club email for daring to set the record straight. At the same time, I read one ludicrous letter contending the paper should only print official club statements.
What price a free press then?
The Watford Observer has been, and I am sure will continue to try to be a paper of record, despite the absence of help from the club. Upon my departure, I was not succeeded by a succession of horned individuals with forked tails but decent, qualified journalists with a love of the club.
They are doing a difficult job in the most difficult circumstances ever experienced by local journalists trying to cover Watford FC. They have my full and total sympathy.
As for me, thanks for the kind remarks but I am glad I am out of it.
However, I am grateful in a way for the present situation for it has made me appreciate all the more what pleasant people I had to deal with over 40 years.
Compared with the current administrative regime, I think upon reflection Luca Vialli may have been a truly open, consistent and communicative individual.
Your Say YourTimes Series
Des, Hatch End says...
12:54pm Fri 18 Jan 08
The current demise of the Watford Way is upsetting and a reason I will not renew my ST.
The people in charge are happy to pocket the money and ignore the criticisms.
Thankfully you are right in that the fans will be here a lot longer than the communist regime.
I'll be back when the reds leave.
Steve, hemel hempstead says...
12:57pm Fri 18 Jan 08
chris, the vic says...
12:59pm Fri 18 Jan 08
We have a 2010 dream of Aidys supported by the ambitious board with great plans has been pushed by Simpson and his cohorts...all great spin.
In reality three star players sold and a couple of moderates bought since promotion..we have sold the crown jewels that were not for sale.
Only since relegation did things not add up with regard to the monies...then the accounts were published and the awful truth of a club with a substantial overdraft emerged.
Once these and before that the January 2007 mayhem of signing heaven knows what...questions were asked and not answered other than by ...dont be so stupid attitude...The AGM told us a lot about the current regime when things became slightly cleare but not transparent.
The Watford Observer reported fairly but the clubs idea of fairness is to bully and create a marketing ploy that says buy our season tickets even though we were relegated because we are ambitious.
Trouble is the regimes ambition is to garner money for projects off pitch, their remuneration at a cost to the team. Marlon would not have gone if we had signed a better class of player...
In the final analysis we were encouraged to buy record numbers of season tickets on a false premise of a club that was going to go places on the pitch.. The Regimes spin of 2010 and our dream now lies in tatters and that is why they dislike the Observer and us because we have sussed it out....and as for outside investors would you put your money into our club under the present regime
David, SW says...
1:00pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I'm sure War and Peace has less words.
Which is best? Watford Observer or Watford Football Club?
In the words of Harry Hill, "There's only one way to find out......FIGHT!!!!"
Mike, Oxhey says...
1:00pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Not out of a dislike for Mr Phillips or the Watford Observer, no. But because the football club I follow to give me some kind of relief from the every day chores that appear in my life is seemingly run like a dictatorship of which everything I, as an individual, stand for is abused.
I'm disappointed favourite players leave for more money - but I can understand that.
I'm disappointed we don't play on the floor more - if we're successful I'll accept the direct style.
But I'm truly sickened by this 'DO AS WE SAY' mentality and the belief that the club cannot be criticised at any level and the temerity that anyone who does criticise is banished from the premises.
Sickened, truly sickened.
Rob, Herts says...
1:02pm Fri 18 Jan 08
years all i have to say is i have always had the greatest of respect for the WO newspaper and nothing has changed my mind over the years ,in fact i am very grateful to them for really keeping us fans in touch ,REAL FANS must read this article ,and as for our "board" of directors you may not like criticism , but i for one ESPECIALLY at this time in our history thank the newspaper for having the guts to challenge this board and in particular to Kevin Affleck a watford supporter by the way keep up the very good work !
Edless, Back bedroom says...
1:04pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I would posit that the more exclusives the website contains, the more visitors would visit the official site, hence making more money for the website.
If all the news was in the WA, then they'd lose out financially. As we all know, football is about the money now.
P, Brighton says...
1:27pm Fri 18 Jan 08
DAVE, HOLBORN says...
1:28pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Top 10 club by 2010 anyone?!
Wes, Watford says...
1:40pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Affleck's journalism is biased, often off the mark and gives a neutral reader like myself the impression that he is trying to be controversial and undermind AB in all that he reports and writes.
Aidy is young, learning the game and I pray he does not read either the watford observer or fan forums. He is our 2nd most successful manager ever, he is still over achieving from where we could ever have expected to be when he took over.
Any promotion hopes will be lost if the 'fans' continue to doubt him and the players, if people boo collins john before he has a chance, how can we ever expect him to settle in and 'want to' play for watford?
PSG, says...
1:46pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Others who have left include Ed Coan, Susan Graham, Steve Simmons, Chris Bailey, Richard Walker, Bob Walker, Tony Yorke, James McLaughlin, Glen Calverley and Nicki Hattingh."
Why not come out and say "I don't like Mark Ashton and I think he's to blame for these people going"? The reason is because, in reality, it is unlikely Ashton personally had anything to do with these people leaving. But if we're talking about spin/campaigning, I think both parties could have done better.
Harold, says...
2:12pm Fri 18 Jan 08
It isn't to stop them from saying "Watford is a great place to work, I love the senior staff and it really pains me to be leaving."
chris, says...
2:15pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Watford is a small town and many of the clubs employees live locally. There have been rumours coming out from the club about Ashton's management style ever since he joined. I know several people who have left the club and privately commented about the club. As CEO he has the day to day responsibility of running the club, and people dont leave without his involvement.
I have never, ever seen so many people leave a company under compromise agreements, legally binding gagging orders. There has to be a hidden agenda over this. The idea that WFC is still a 'Family Club' is total nonsense.
Its being run by bullies and control freaks, and thank god the WO are prepared to stand up to them and expose the goings on in the club.
I've been to the Fans Forums and listened to all the spin, and I've been to the AGM.
I've supported WFC since the early seventies, and I've been reading the WO since the same time. I am really saddened that the club have gone down this route of conflict. I am also angry enough not to renew my season ticket next season if matters dont improve. Buying a copy of the WO each week is alot cheaper and better value than following WFC at the moment.
Tom, Watford says...
2:21pm Fri 18 Jan 08
As for Ashton, Boothroyd and Simpson, we will still be here loong after they have gone
quote
Rookery, says...
2:24pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Like you, I know people who have worked at the club over the past couple of years, and they have either left themselves with some awful stories of the place, or are still there but want to leave and have told me about former colleagues and what they went through.
As Harold says, why on earth would an employer keep insisting upon paying people to keep quiet unless they were very concerned about what they might say?
The CEO of an organisation would have to sanction any such compromise agreement, so for PSG to say he has no involvement is total folly.
Watford stopped being the family club yonks ago - would a fmaily club move families to sit next to away fans, as many families at Vicarage Road have had to do (and the view and seats are nowhere near nas good as those in the new directors box).
In fact, Watford as many, many people knew it is fast disappearing.
It took a hell of a lot of years to earn the good reputation Watford had, both inside and outside the game of football.
But it isn't taking anything like that length of time to destroy it.
KL, hemel says...
2:40pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Doogie, says...
2:47pm Fri 18 Jan 08
But if he and the WO gave in, then who would be club's arbitor?
As for King being out of the official club website preview, that's no surprise.
If we lose to Charlton, they'll probably try to blame it on the upheaveal he caused by leaving - or perhaps it'll be Kevin Affleck's fault!!
Pob, says...
2:50pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Read all about it: Watford win the Premiership, no more war, world starving ended, free cash for all readers
Darren, Canada says...
2:54pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I genuinely believe the honeymoon at WFC is coming to an end - like any fan, I really hope I am wrong. I would love NE to turn his form around (I know he hasn't played that much) and I would like to see CJ come to the club and perform well, but the fact is we have lost a known striker and two possible replacements are out of form right now.
Simon, London says...
2:54pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I note that Ollie Phillips's articles have at no point appeared on the WO web-site until such time as he has written an article such as this and that it has been published at a time when the club is already under severe criticism.
The whole business strikes me as rather petty on both sides and those that ultimately suffer from this pettiness are we, the fans.
It is truly a sad state of affairs but both parties appear to have been active participants in digging their own graves.
pete, Guildford says...
3:01pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Lou, says...
3:01pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I think that is why they have put it here - to let those who made the comments and who may not see the printed edition have a chance to read it.
I do agree that both sides have made mistakes, but the paper has covered the club for more than 100-odd years, and the combined number of years that the relationship has been this bad is only a very small fraction of that.
When you consider the paper has managed to work with the club for a hundred or so years, the fact that for the entire three years of the current regime things have been as bad as they are suggests to me that club have to take the lino's share of the blame.
Snorebens, 'Ackney says...
3:03pm Fri 18 Jan 08
after more than 40 yrs buying WFC season tickets i no longer do.
The Oliver Philips MBE, Out there!! says...
3:04pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Personally I'm delighted that the club is being run professionally at last we can only hope the WO may follow suit at some stage!
hertshorn, says...
3:05pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Doogie, says...
3:07pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I am, of course, in no position really to judge as I have never done your job.
However, simply by seeing the fruits of your labours once a week, I've come to that outspoken conclusion.
If you're going to throw around accusations, let's all have a go......
colin, st albans says...
3:20pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Doogie, says...
3:23pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Boast away my friend. I'm sure you are brilliant at your job, earn squillions and are totally indispensible.
If you have evidence that KA is a "very bad journo" that could not be contended then that's great.
So let's see it.
Angray Man, Rookery Front Row says...
3:27pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Hrts horn: if you currently go the sh*te served up at Vicarage Road and enjoy it, you must lead a very sad and lonely life.
Jonathan, Borehamwood says...
3:28pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Gumbo, watford says...
3:28pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Boothroyd wants to think big and sign players that want to play for WFC - FAIL
Simpson will support the manager and club as much as possible - FAIL
Much like a school report really.
On a final note AB said he reports to the chairman but the club is responsible to the fans as it is our club. In that case they should invite some of us to explain their actions. Or can I smell BullS*it
john, greece says...
3:33pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Me I get more excited now watching my sons play football where it is all about the sport. The sheer agony and ecstacy of winning and losing.
Too much football on tv has led us all to be experts and to crave the style of man u and arsenal.
Personally it seems more than a coincidence the politics have increased immesurably since the arrival of our Tory investor.
Gumbo, Watford says...
3:40pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Mr Ashton, if you intend to run WFC as a buisness I suggest you need to look into what makes a buisness successful.
1/A product the public want i.e. a good football team
2/A product the customer want to buy i.e. a season ticket and merchandise
3/Make a profit i.e. buy players who improve the product increase revenue and experiance
4/Invest money into the product so it evolves with the times and doesnt get out dated
5/Make the product affordable i.e. dont cream off all the profits for your own benefit
6/Be effective with costs i.e. dont waste money on players uneccessary buidling work, anything that doesnt add value to your product.
If you are the buisness man you claim to be you wouldnt have made fundimental errors in buisness.
If your not up to the tasks I suggest we do a cost cutting exercise and remove you from your position.
Steve, 164-783 says...
3:40pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I totally echo your throughly well written posting.
KA has only reported the truth and has kept the fans informed of the coming and goings of the club and has done so with his dignity in tact.
His reporting in this weeks WO is first class and an excellent piece of journalism.
he too has only spoken the truth.
Lies-Hoofers told us he only wnated players who wanted to play for Watford , now we have signed Collins John.
The club is in turmoil and 3 people are too blame
Hoofers for his tactics , his spin and his transfer targets
Simpson and Ashton too sanction those signings and failing to deliver on their mission statements.
I no longer want those 3 spin doctors associated with the club.
Go now, thanks for all your efforts but we now want our club back.
P.S Please Hoofers offered Macca a big new contract last year, again an example of his lack of ability to judge a player and I have just read on the Web he reckons Francis has been playing well of late......Aidy you should have gone to specsavers!!!!!!!!!
Steve, hemel hempstead says...
3:48pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Gumbo, Watford says...
3:52pm Fri 18 Jan 08
chris, the vic says...
3:57pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Those who read these threads know that in the last few months I have been very vocal in my criticism of both Simpson and Ashton and only slightly less so with regard to Aidy.
HOWEVER during the game whether Charlton score or whatever we must BACK the lads. Whether CJ or NE or JS play or all three we must be 100% behind them...what happens off the pitch with the management is one thing but it is decidedly not the players fault.
Yes occasionally a player is distracted from giving of his best and sometimes that attitude lingers due to contract difficulties or transfer talk...but like us the players are only human and have to put themselves and their families first...but in general terms they have not misled and more often than not give of their best...So please if you feel strongly about GS or whoever let them know about it at half time or full time but get behind the lads during the game when they need us. Because many of us feel we cant rely on the management we get upset but the players have to go out and perform to the best of their ability despite like us maybe feeling they have been sold short so please please get behind them.
WFC will be around long after Boofers and Simpson but those lads have a limited number of years and like last year in the premier they need our support...just keep Aidys name out of the chants and if you see the board let them know how we feel.
Norm, says...
3:57pm Fri 18 Jan 08
He'll need the month with us just to get used to it again.
What I find amazing is that the reason (apparently) we haven't played Ellington regularly is that he wasn't fully fit and needed time to get back into shape.
Yet we're taking this bloke on loan, presumably because we intend to play him, yet his last first-team match was on March 4, 2007.
Steve, hemel hempstead says...
4:02pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Great point, just shows how incompetent Hoofers really is.
But remember happy clappers he has a back up plan, Marricrappa or jackson, can't wait my mouth is drooling
wes, watford says...
4:04pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Norm, says...
4:06pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Actually, you're right - let's all give a big round of applause to the manager for doing what he is paid handsomely to do.
Shame on the Watford Observer for not starting that applause.
Gumbo, Watford says...
4:07pm Fri 18 Jan 08
1/ The first 2 minutes against Charlton all WFC fans turn their backs on the game, showing banners to the board of our thoughts of disapproval.
2/ We dont cheer the first WFC goal to show our discontent.
3/ Support the team away from home as you would at home and not attend home games. The club dont make revenue from away games. This third one is most harsh but by denting the pockets of Simpson etc. it is the only way of making them take note.
Or maybe their is another way? Any ideas?
Gumbo, Watford says...
4:18pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Wes, watford says...
4:28pm Fri 18 Jan 08
There are many mindless clones who read this site who have been brainwashed by this website/paper! What do they want to achieve ... boothroyd out? the only way he will leave is to a bigger better and more supportive club than us!!!
I for one see the watford observer as the parasite here, and i ll love to see there reaction when boothroyd takes us up again!
Steve, hemel hempstead says...
4:28pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Hoofers heard on the grape vine that he could get Barnes and Blissett on a free , so he has made an approach, offered them a shed load of money and a 5 year contract.
They have jumped at the chance but hoofers has warned them he will loan them out or let them rot in the reserves in less than 6 months time
Gumbo, Watford says...
4:40pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Firstly AB is doing what he gets paid to do. But yes he has done well so far. I think the main problem is the lies, in house rangles and his bloody mindedness not to involve the fans. Didnt GT openly make the community aware of what the club was doing? The paper should be used for the clubs advantage but it is not. E.g. one paticulary game we lost at home to Swindon 1-0 he came out after the game saying he changed the formation and the players did as he asked. He did that so he should take the blame not the players. Guess what, fans said fair play we forgive you. Honesty and respect is what made GT great. AB should get him back has a advisor not speak to Bassett.
Norm, says...
4:41pm Fri 18 Jan 08
My point?
His greatest achievements happened nearly two seasons ago.
Since then, we've been decidedly ordinary at best, except for a magical couple of months earlier this season (which Adam Johnson inspired).
Most recently, we've been dire.
And believe me, I don't need a newspaper or a website to tell me that.
Of course, the Watford Observer is the parasite here - they printed the words of the CEO and manager that said King wasn't going, and then they sold the player when the club weren't looking.
wonderlander, watford says...
4:45pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Wes wrote:I just want to see some decent football, or at least some attempt to play decent football, some creativity and flair, and some honesty from the manager, CEO and Board. Sadly, we see none of that. Adam Johnson (correct spelling?) was well worth the price of my season ticket and where would we be now without the benefit of him earlier in the season. I, for one, would not be unhappy if Boothroyd left for a bigger club (pity he wasn't offered the England job - I am sure that he feels he was up to it)and if we could somehow (and it is more difficult theses days)return to the principles and honesty that made Watford special. I have been a regular supporter for 30 years and this year has been a real low. The rot started when the Board totally undermined Ray Lewington, started to censor the WO, and failed to meet its promises to Elton on the use of money raised at his concert.The turnover of experienced staff is appalling, and there is an unacceptable stench permeating through Vicarage Road. I shall probably be banned now for being critical.
Norm, id congratulate boothroyd for taking over a club going nowhere, taking us up into the premiership at the 1st time of asking and leading us to 3rd in the Championship at present!
There are many mindless clones who read this site who have been brainwashed by this website/paper! What do they want to achieve ... boothroyd out? the only way he will leave is to a bigger better and more supportive club than us!!!
I for one see the watford observer as the parasite here, and i ll love to see there reaction when boothroyd takes us up again!
Angry Man, 'ackney says...
4:56pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I saved this for prosperity
Steve, says...
4:59pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Takes us where?
Up the river without a paddle, I suspect.
Promotion you are kidding yourslef
Norm, says...
5:00pm Fri 18 Jan 08
The only way we'll be taken back up is if we go down first.
Neil Young, Broken Arrow says...
6:27pm Fri 18 Jan 08
colin wrote:****! After 7 goals you would think we could have kept them out in the last minute.
Your guesses please as to the crowds reaction when the first Charlton goal goes in tomorrow
Frank, London says...
7:06pm Fri 18 Jan 08
From any independent point of view the WO article above is breathtaking in it's arrogance. Sure the club has probably been too defensive and has certainly made some serious mistakes but Phillips has been against the current regime from the start.....anybody remember his tactical defence of Ray (would you like to be relegated this year or next) Lewington? As for Affleck his clear bias (remember the pathetic reporting last Summer of the moans of a Czech - alledged star - triallist who then went on to fail completely at Norwich)is resonant of the worst standard of tabloid junk.
Personally its not my season ticket that's going back, it's my subsciption to the Watford Observer.
sir stanley, pitch side says...
7:21pm Fri 18 Jan 08
And a question for mr affleck ..Why if you want to get some kind of relationship back would you get a vote going about aidy boothroyds signings and then not include any of the good ones like Shittu, king, henderson, foster (even though he was a loan) , this sort of journalism is not going to help the relationship is it ?, its only going to make it worse !!..
Come on WFC and WO lets get together and remember no fans = no team ...........
Will, Bushey says...
7:28pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Will, Bushey says...
7:40pm Fri 18 Jan 08
an 8 out of 10 is great unless only fifteen people voted. similarly, 3 out of 10 means very little if, again, only fifteen people voted!
Let's have a fair reflection please.
Dan, Watford says...
7:49pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Anyway, no more ranting but I for one will be getting behind the team even if we lose every game for the rest of the season (I doubt we will as I have every confidence in Aidy). If you're not renewing your season tickets - fine, your loss.....I'll see you at the next Playoff final/cup semi/premier league game :)
John Howard Norfolk, Tiverton, Devon (formerly in Oxhey Village) says...
7:59pm Fri 18 Jan 08
sir stanley, pitch side says...
8:10pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Superb post Dan, if only everyone had that attitude we would sound superb at home as well as away ...
Voice of reason, Watford says...
8:30pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Football is a simple game not rocket science and everyone should stick together, we all should have the same wishes and desires, so why doesn't the board recognise that.
I want them all out and out by the end of the month, they are destroying the community around them and alienating everyone in their path, I'm sickened by it all. How come we are in a worse state now than when we were gunning for promotion a couple of seasons ago, I thought by getting to the promise land would have set us nicely, I was quite prepared to be a yo-yo club and gain some stability instead of lies and spin. I don't trust them, I want them out and I want them out of my club now!!!
The age old saying....One step back to take two forward.
WatfordKev, Watford says...
8:38pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Voice of reason, Watford says...
8:52pm Fri 18 Jan 08
chris, the vic says...
9:06pm Fri 18 Jan 08
So contrary to your thoughts we can support the team thru thick and thin and I did in Div 3 south/div 4 and div3 for years of going nowhere.
But this time we had money and were told the future was rosy by a bunch of spinners/censors/bul
ly boys...that is the difference.
They have used the press for misinformation telling us what wthey thought we wanted to hear and when reality starts to dawn it is the fault of the press and some fans. get real they will always blame someone until they get their pay off and go.May it be soon
ron scales, watford says...
9:31pm Fri 18 Jan 08
pete, oxhey says...
9:36pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I think he could easily have failed his medical, i don't think he's fully fit...
Michael Green, Stanmore says...
9:36pm Fri 18 Jan 08
john wrote:John - I couldn't agree more. (And it was me who orginally wrote about OP gracing these pages.) After 30 years of support I quit my active interest when the club disgracefully whacked up the turnstyle prices during the first Premier League debacle. That shouting-shepherding moron on the PA & the ill-tempered joylessness of the fans put the tin-hat on it. I now follow WFC from afar; would not want my sons to commit their lives & finances to sustaining this miserable, mercenary industry. Football at this level is for alienated, defeated & empty people. The players & their wretched hangers-on are laughing at us . . .
watching watford used to be for many many years the most important part of my life. The whole game is just money money money now. It was so refreshing to see Havant win and get a day out at Anfield.
Me I get more excited now watching my sons play football where it is all about the sport. The sheer agony and ecstacy of winning and losing.
Too much football on tv has led us all to be experts and to crave the style of man u and arsenal.
Personally it seems more than a coincidence the politics have increased immesurably since the arrival of our Tory investor.
john, greece says...
9:41pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Kevin, Chippenham, Wilts says...
9:56pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Cliff, Oxford says...
10:34pm Fri 18 Jan 08
michael, local says...
10:35pm Fri 18 Jan 08
whay has Boothroyd not used the tremendous youth at his disposal.Robinson is on loan ,macca has now gone (his performance in the league cup was the best this season).Quite frankly we would put up with mid table if we could see a future full of bright stars.
Simpson where has the money gone --i am told we have an overdraft now does that mean the money has been divied up ?WO or not i believe we are owed an explanation on the website of where it has gone and why KING was allowed to go.
AB stop trying to repeat your success with MK by signing troubled and injured players look around for young talent and play them.Warnock is playing 15 yr olds and it is working .this season is blown now so give us hope and play the kids.!!!!!!!!
Richard, Come on you Golden Boys! says...
10:35pm Fri 18 Jan 08
I, for one, am not impressed by the ramblings of a second rate and outdated provincial ex-sports journalist who is trying to turn the clock back from the depths of rural France to try and turn opinion against the current WFC regime. No wonder they treat the Observer with disdain and mistrust.
I too have followed the team for more than 40 years, but have not been paid to do so, and can remember both the good and the not so good year. Some things have improved for the better, pthers not, but we all have to move with the times and accept it.
Aidy Boothroyd did exceptionally well when he first arrived at the club and clearly over-achieved with scant resources in 05/06. Last year was a reality check and he will have learnt from the experience. But he is still young and inexperienced and needs to be given time and consideration to learn.
The current board obviously have their own interests but have also steered the club from the very brink of extinction to the relatively strong position they are now in.
Outside of the Watford Observer, the world of media has moved on,for better or worse, and like it or not the Watford Observer is no longer that important to the public perception of Watford FC. There are many other avenues that provide better coverage these days.
It is high time they realised exactly where they sit in the value chain and stopped overplaying their importance, rweported the facts and supported the team.
Come on you Golden Boys!
Utter rubbish, says...
10:55pm Fri 18 Jan 08
Richard wrote:You're just the kind of fan that Simpson and Ashton want.
This article is simply pathetic and hardly helpful to the Watford FC cause.
I, for one, am not impressed by the ramblings of a second rate and outdated provincial ex-sports journalist who is trying to turn the clock back from the depths of rural France to try and turn opinion against the current WFC regime. No wonder they treat the Observer with disdain and mistrust.
I too have followed the team for more than 40 years, but have not been paid to do so, and can remember both the good and the not so good year. Some things have improved for the better, pthers not, but we all have to move with the times and accept it.
Aidy Boothroyd did exceptionally well when he first arrived at the club and clearly over-achieved with scant resources in 05/06. Last year was a reality check and he will have learnt from the experience. But he is still young and inexperienced and needs to be given time and consideration to learn.
The current board obviously have their own interests but have also steered the club from the very brink of extinction to the relatively strong position they are now in.
Outside of the Watford Observer, the world of media has moved on,for better or worse, and like it or not the Watford Observer is no longer that important to the public perception of Watford FC. There are many other avenues that provide better coverage these days.
It is high time they realised exactly where they sit in the value chain and stopped overplaying their importance, rweported the facts and supported the team.
Come on you Golden Boys!
If the club had nothing to hide, then they would enjoy a decent, working relationship with the WO just as they had done for many, many years prior to these two crooks running the show.
Ask GT what he thinks of the WO.
Adam Cummings, Watford says...
11:22pm Fri 18 Jan 08
There are many other avenues that provide better coverage these days.
Care to name them?
Why so we as fans expect so little? In any other business (as we keep getting told WFC are a business) the people running the club would be out on their ears for incompetence. They certainly wouldn't be allowed to get away with the bully boy tactics and gagging clauses they seem intent on continuing.
Again, in any other business, if people didn't like the product they would buy someone else's but the "three wise men" know that football fans aren't like that and thus we get stuck with two people bleeding this club dry and another who reminds me of Nero.
And to bring up the unmentionable has anyone actually investigated Al Bangura's story? Whose word do we have that the events described actually happened?
John Rosser, Milton Keynes says...
1:33am Sat 19 Jan 08
Oiled Samuel, Biscuit Reserves says...
2:13am Sat 19 Jan 08
Had enough, says...
5:09am Sat 19 Jan 08
The board do what they like, ignore/ ban the local press and tell the manager who or who he can/cant sign!!
I think that Aidy should do the honourable thing and walk.
Burley was very succesful at his job at hearts but was not going to be told how to run his team, who to buy etc, and was honourable enough to walk.
If Aidy is the man we are led to believe, with strong principles , he too should walk and give 2 fingers to the board.
Remember Simpson was the one who got the official WFC message board closed down.
If you think the board has any interest in this club and what happens to it, I think you should seek some help ASAP.
For all our sakes Simpson,**** off!!
chris, the vic says...
8:38am Sat 19 Jan 08
You and the Rgeimes supporters ask yourself one question:
In the last twelve months we have sold or tried to sell three of our best players...Young/Boua
zza/King the other two players on that level were Ben and Adam who we did not own. In addition Boofers tried to rid us of Darius this year our top open play scorer and dropped Shittu.
Other goalscorers who went were Carisle and Spring both got good goals in the championship. They have been replaced i guess by ellington and kabba.
On top of the influx of money from transfers out we have had the money for the sale of the corners/sky premier and sky parachute and the last set of accounts showed why we still need to sell a £2.65m overdraft/overpaid execs with grandiose ground improvement ides but no such ideas from the team.
Not all of this would have come out without Affleck and the WO.
The question....Why blame the WO when blatantly the management are out of control, adopting censorship and only too pleased to feed us Bull.
Don't ignore this question answer it so i may understand your view and see the light.
If you wish me to explain my points more clearly feel free to ask.
john, says...
8:41am Sat 19 Jan 08
Maybe we could offer to reduce the selling price. Forrest wont be pleased!
Fred Horn, bushey says...
9:28am Sat 19 Jan 08
Why it could have been written by one of the club officials taking time off from the Daily Pravda, which is very, very low down in the "value chain".
mr answers for chris, answer town says...
9:40am Sat 19 Jan 08
firstly we sold 3 players that did not want to play for WFC and demanded a move and there is litle anyone at the club could do about it !!
secondly, with regards to the ground prior to this regime we didnt own it !!.. so the only way you can sell something like "corners of the ground" is if you own it, and who did that ??
With regards to players like Spring and carlisle your point is just your opinion and not fact !! Carlisle wanted to go back up north, and as much as i was a fan of Spring in the few prem games he did play he made big mistakes (man utd home being one of them),, but hey this is not fact just an opinion, like yours !!!
With regards to the wo and wfc arguments i think both go about there points in the wrong way and both should sort it for the fans ...
Now dont get me wrong some questions need to be addressed by the club and it certainly aint rosey, but come on and lets support the team and stay positve, unrest can only affect the players in a negative way (again all that is just an opinion and not fact, just like your post).........
Michael Green, Stanmore says...
10:20am Sat 19 Jan 08
Adam Cummings wrote:Hello, Adam - are you the chap that manned the PA during the Club's era of integrity? If so, PLEASE COME BACK. I loathe that shouty thug with the microphone.
There are many other avenues that provide better coverage these days.
Care to name them?
Why so we as fans expect so little? In any other business (as we keep getting told WFC are a business) the people running the club would be out on their ears for incompetence. They certainly wouldn't be allowed to get away with the bully boy tactics and gagging clauses they seem intent on continuing.
Again, in any other business, if people didn't like the product they would buy someone else's but the "three wise men" know that football fans aren't like that and thus we get stuck with two people bleeding this club dry and another who reminds me of Nero.
And to bring up the unmentionable has anyone actually investigated Al Bangura's story? Whose word do we have that the events described actually happened?
Richard: you're clearly an employee of the Club, judging by the Pravda-esque ideological grovelling of your posting. Is there anything you could do about this on our behalf? I'd be jolly grateful if so.
Marc Hydleman, Northumberland says...
10:30am Sat 19 Jan 08
4boys, Hemel Hempstead says...
10:51am Sat 19 Jan 08
I have been getting informative news via the paper every week for over 20yrs about my club. The WFC website is crap, very slow to post comment about anything going on at the club even match comments dont get posted till mondays. I had to put Sky news on for info about Marlon leaving.
Surely this is wrong, the website should be there for the fans to get first hand news.
Unfortunately our club is now being run just as a business and as such our Watford,at the moment under this lot,is not operating as a CLUB for the word club surely means fans involvement.
They only want our money not our opinions.
Long after this regime (manager/chairman) have gone we will still have our club and Watford Observer.Only then will we be able to judge how well they have run our club.
'Come on you Horns'
Chris, the vis says...
12:14pm Sat 19 Jan 08
It is claimed and I am sure correctly we have a spiralling wage bill and in most peoples opinion on here a team playing the worst for three years and we have given players away cheaply who scored goals in the championship.
I agree we need to back the team but that does not include the management and I have a hunch a lot of players incl Marlon want away partly because of the lack of football played but that is an opinion
John, Chorleywood says...
12:34pm Sat 19 Jan 08
Paul, Garston says...
1:13pm Sat 19 Jan 08
Roy Stockdill, says...
1:45pm Sat 19 Jan 08
Sadly, football club chairman and managers have little understanding of the role of the press in a democratic society. It is NOT the job of a local newspaper to support the club, right or wrong. It is a newspaper's role to be supportive when things are going well, but equally they have a perfect right to criticise when they perceive things to be wrong. This is called the freedom of the press and Watford FC appear to be unaware of it. Nor is it any part of a newspaper's job simply to print glossy handouts from the club's spin department, giving only one side of the story. A football club chairman or manager cannot be allowed to edit a newspaper, any more than an editor would expect to run the club.
Oli appears to be right when he refers to a Soviet-style regime that cannot stand an iota of criticism. He is not the only one to say this. Perhaps I could refer you to an article in the Daily Telegraph headed "Paranoid Watford have lost their way". This can be seen at the following URL: http://www.telegraph
.
co.uk/sport/main.jht
ml/?xml=/sport/
2006/12/28/sfnwat28.
xml.
Adam Cummings, Watford says...
3:13pm Sat 19 Jan 08
That's me Michael. I have always tried to avoid comparing those magical days with what is going on now for fear of being accused of living in the past but the events of the past few days have finally forced me to make some comments on this forum.
One desperately tries to be constructive but when one reads and listens to the constant half truths and falsehoods coming from the club, the only reaction can be one of disbelief that people accept what they say. In a free country we need the media to question and stand up to authority and so however much you may dislike Kevin, Andrew and Oli and what they say, you should be grateful that they are allowed to say it.
Frank, London says...
3:28pm Sat 19 Jan 08
Roy Stockdill wrote:Oh so we're all low IQ if we disagree with the mighty Oli and Kevin 'tabloid spin' Affleck are we?
My old friend and colleague Oli Phillips is an outstanding journalist who has probably forgotten more about football than most bone-headed, current fans with an IQ somewhere in the low 80s will ever know! Sadly, football club chairman and managers have little understanding of the role of the press in a democratic society. It is NOT the job of a local newspaper to support the club, right or wrong. It is a newspaper\'s role to be supportive when things are going well, but equally they have a perfect right to criticise when they perceive things to be wrong. This is called the freedom of the press and Watford FC appear to be unaware of it. Nor is it any part of a newspaper\'s job simply to print glossy handouts from the club\'s spin department, giving only one side of the story. A football club chairman or manager cannot be allowed to edit a newspaper, any more than an editor would expect to run the club. Oli appears to be right when he refers to a Soviet-style regime that cannot stand an iota of criticism. He is not the only one to say this. Perhaps I could refer you to an article in the Daily Telegraph headed \"Paranoid Watford have lost their way\". This can be seen at the following URL: http://www.telegraph . co.uk/sport/main.jht ml/?xml=/sport/ 2006/12/28/sfnwat28. xml.
Perhaps if you could look beyond a friendship and study very carefully the early coverage of the current regime by OP and all that has followed by Kevin 'tabloid' Affleck you'd understand why the club has felt attacked. The agenda is clear.....there are many examples to go with those quoted above.
There is clearly fault in both sides in this.....the smug arrogance of the article above will not help at all.
I agree with some of your description about the role of the press in a modern democratic (dubious with the current spin obsessed government) society but it's really not the point. We have a right to expect some degree of balance from out local paper and not spite and spin.
Michael Green, Stanmore says...
9:56pm Sat 19 Jan 08
Adam Cummings wrote:Aha! I knew it. You're a good, dignified & measured man - always were. I recall your embarrassment at having to play Giacomo Petchey's simulated crowd noise at corners back in the early '90s. And I always appreciated your welcome extended to the opposing fans. Great days! Good to see that you remain a thorn in the side of grasping authoritarian bureaucrats. Hats off!
First time I can ever recall agreeing with Mr Stockhill!
That's me Michael. I have always tried to avoid comparing those magical days with what is going on now for fear of being accused of living in the past but the events of the past few days have finally forced me to make some comments on this forum.
One desperately tries to be constructive but when one reads and listens to the constant half truths and falsehoods coming from the club, the only reaction can be one of disbelief that people accept what they say. In a free country we need the media to question and stand up to authority and so however much you may dislike Kevin, Andrew and Oli and what they say, you should be grateful that they are allowed to say it.
Richard, Come On you Golden Boys! says...
12:55am Sun 20 Jan 08
However, they are by no means perfect and clearly have their own business interests to protect - which may sometimes conflict with what we supporters would like to see happen. This is no different to what is happening at almost every other league club in the land - so accept it.
However, as some of the recent actions at the club are clearly cause for concern, it would be very useful to have a better understanding & insight into what is happening and why.
However, how do the WO expect to be taken seriously and perform this role when they continually try to put a negative slant on almost everything that happens?
This is hardly likely to encourage the club to be more open is it? And it generally gets the expected negative reaction on these message boards with the same approach.
The pitiful article by the man from a bygone era, praising himself and defending his ex colleagues / employers is just another case in point.
I thought everyone understood about the paper boy who cried wolf, but perhaps not?
If so,It does beg the question; What exactly is the Agenda of the Watford Observer re WFC?
Just have a look at your articles and the reports over the last few months and you'll see my point, or then again maybe you won't.
Moving on to the football, I thought our team battled hard today and gained a well-earned point against a decent Charlton side in very difficult circumstances, however you could always put another slant on it.
Come On You Golden Boys!
Fred Horn, bushey says...
4:28pm Sun 20 Jan 08
FredHorn, Bushey says...
7:45am Mon 21 Jan 08
Graham Simpson and Mark Ashton
Aidy Boothroyd
Luca Vialli
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aidy, watford says...
12:51pm Fri 18 Jan 08