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Saracens Rugby Club bid for Copthall development recommended for approval

12:10pm Wednesday 25th January 2012 in News By Kate Jenkinson

Saracens Rugby Club has promised to make a positive difference in the area following the release of a council report recommending the approval of their development plans for Copthall Stadium.

A report on the proposal is to go to the Planning and Environment Committee meeting on Friday, February 2, with a recommendation that the erection of a community sports stadium be approved.

More than 6000 letters of support were received during consultation, with 1500 letters of objection also received - 12 authors of which have requested to speak about their concerns at the meeting.

A petition in support of the proposal was submitted by Whetstone Wanderers in August 2011 with 251 signatures and a 35-signature petition against it was received from residents in Sebergham Grove and Sandwick Close on October.

Nigel Wray, chairman of Saracens, said: “The recommendation to approve our planning application by council officers is a very positive step forward and we sincerely hope that councillors at Barnet will also be able to support the plans.

“The recommendation is the result of a thorough analysis of all aspects of the plans and a lot of hard work to develop the best possible scheme.

"Issues have been raised throughout the process, such as Green Belt policy and transportation. We have responded positively by amending our plans, providing further information and introducing robust safeguards."

Main objections to the plan include concerns over preservation of green belt land next to the site, transport, traffic, access and parking inadequacies and impact of the stadium on nearby residents.

Mr Wray maintained that the club has the best interests of the community at heart.

"We are not a normal developer," he said.

"We plan to make Copthall our home. We are therefore committed to working closely with the local community and becoming a part of it. We want and need local support and we will work hard for it. We absolutely promise that.

“We will treat local residents with respect and make a positive difference in the area.

“We are delighted with the amount of support that we have received from throughout the local community. We absolutely promise that we will make Copthall a community asset that we can all be proud of.”

The proposal received loud criticism at a public event hosted by Mayor of London Boris Johnson last week, when questions over its support were met with shouts of “no” and “boo” from the audience.

Cabinet member councillor Brian Coleman, who chaired the event, was among the plan’s objectors and stated clearly: “I entirely oppose the Saracens’ proposal.

“It will fail for the same reasons Barnet Football Club application failed ten years ago."

Coverage from the Times Series on the topic has elicited passionate responses from readers with comments in both opposition and support of the plans.

The redeveloped Copthall stadium would become home to Saracens who would play up to 16 matches per year on a new synthetic pitch.

At all other times the facilities would be available to the local community – it will be free of charge to local schools and will be home to Shaftesbury Barnet Harriers and other athletics clubs, who would benefit from new indoor athletics facilities.

The Saracens Foundation would also be based at Copthall, running outreach programmes for the community.

Comments(22)

redrenault says...
12:57pm Wed 25 Jan 12

Tell me something we didn’t know !! This is only stage 1 .. of course there were more than 6000 letters of support .. all the fans sent letters in !! .. but they don’t count because they do not live in Barnet. Barnet council just see this as a way to save 350k a year . that is it . They only really look into things when threatened with legal action . and the fun continues !

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DannyMan says...
1:42pm Wed 25 Jan 12

Some Saracens fans live in Barnet. Doesn't suit your agenda I know, but it's true.
So Barnet Council saves £350K per year. Whilst retaining ownership of the facility. And with the (massively improved) facility available for much-enhanced and FREE community use for 95% of the year. What's not to like? Or would you prefer Barnet Council (i.e. you and all the other taxpayers) NOT to save £350K per year?

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GazzaFez says...
2:09pm Thu 26 Jan 12

Excellent news! The vocal minority in this case remind me of the travesty over Partingdale Lane. Anyone who truly is local and not just claiming to be will remember this very well; a ruthlessly selfish minority causing years of mayhem for the majority. Well I'm very pleased to see in this case a different outcome on the horizon. Copthall is a dump and needs renovation. Of course as a declared Saracens fan and local I am doubly delighted that this is finally going ahead for the benefit of ALL Barnet residents and not just Saracens. My wife works with most of the schools in Barnet and I can tell you emphatically that support from them is universal. This is a fantastic development for our local schools - and FREE too!

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Mr_Growser says...
9:22am Fri 27 Jan 12

There are so many doubtful judgements in the report that the application is almost certain to be turned down by Boris or called in for a public inquiry - just as Barnet FC's was. Either Boris and the Government keep their promises about protecting the Green Belt, or they don't. I think they will. This development should not be allowed!

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nw7resident says...
11:02am Fri 27 Jan 12

'Doubtful judgements': That's your subjective opinion again Mr Growser.
Of course the other argument is that this government and the mayor have equally made repeated public promises on the importance of sports and leisure - especially in this olympic year, and particularly across London where childhood obesity and public health are such concerns. Barnet certainly needs to do more in this regard as has already been repeatedly pointed out - it just does not have the money to repair this stadium - (all it currently does it maintain and staff it at a cost to all of us of 250 - 350k every year) - and nor will it, with the economic climate as gloomy as it is.
If the mayor has any sense he will look at the simple facts. There is already a stadium there - and everyone knew that (me included) when I moved here. It is in real danger of becoming unusable in the near future. In this scheme the basic footprint will stay as it is. There is no re-siting of the track on to the surrounding greenbelt. In your own argument - it is a popular community venue. The only way to bring enough money in to safeguard its future is with outside investment. The only way to do that is to retain ownership and find an community minded, external partner. You couldnt get a more community minded partner than Saracens. All the local schools, all the local sports clubs, especially the existing tenants, the Harriers support this. Consultation has been long and extensive. Changes to the original proposals to minimise traffic problems and make the plans as environmentally friendly and aesthetically 'green' have been thoughtful and show they have listened to what we've been saying.
You repeatedly compare these plans to Barnet FCs. They are entirely different. I was personally against a 20k capacity stadium and the wholesale changes proposed under that scheme. This is half the size and will not require the relocation of the Harriers - furthermore with the exception of 16 days a year, our kids and our community get to use it.
So let's safeguard Copthall into the future - and support this scheme!

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MichaelH says...
12:07pm Fri 27 Jan 12

nw7resident

Barnet FC's plan that was blocked by John Prescott was for a 10,000 stadium. Barnet Shaftesbury Harriers would have stayed at Copthall under those proposals.

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
12:42pm Fri 27 Jan 12

MichaelH - 99.99% sure it was for a 20,000 seater stadium, not 10,000 and Barnet FC didnt spend nearly as much time consulting with the local groups/residents.

This DEFINITELY should be allowed!! (Sorry Mr Growser - think mine sounds better though....)

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MichaelH says...
1:26pm Fri 27 Jan 12

Lionel -

Initial proposals were for a 20k stadium. The plans were then scaled back to a 10,000 capacity stadium.

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redrenault says...
1:37pm Fri 27 Jan 12

Nw7 .. hmm must be the chairman of sarcens that lives locally ! yadayadayada .. saw the report and not good on the details .. eg coaches .. we wil do a shuttle service and discuss with TFL .. well TFL have not agreed to additional trains, have not had in depth discussion re costs .. where are these shuttle buses dropping off and picking up ? .. what about existng services ? The devil is in the detail and everything is -- to be addressed once planning approved ! so when locals realise that like so many isssues things are not workable it will be too late todo anything about it ! That is why it will fail ..

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Mr_Growser says...
5:00pm Fri 27 Jan 12

There is no evidence that professional rugby stadia reduce childhood obesity, or have any effect on public health. As to Saracen's charity, their trustees should put their resources where there is greatest need (possibly Luton and Watford, let alone Carpenders Park) and not fossick around in Mill Hill and Hendon where there is deprivation - but much, much less of it. It should not be allowed!

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Runner&dogwalker says...
5:12pm Fri 27 Jan 12

The "FREE for Schools" slogan is just eyewash - look in the small print of the Shared Facilities Agreement - "Saracens agree to maintain the level of charges for individual entry, schools and clubs....in line with the current pricing structure..Adult £3.60, junior £1.65.....increases not exceeding the prevailing RPI."

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Runner&dogwalker says...
5:27pm Fri 27 Jan 12

As for public opinion, to date there are 356 letters of support for Saracens on Barnet's planning web page, many of them from fans who live far away (eg Uttoxeter in Staffordshire), and 554 letters of objection.

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nw7resident says...
6:29pm Fri 27 Jan 12

As you say RR - Nigel Wray, the Saracens chairman indeed lives locally and is putting £10m of his own money into this .... you can ya de ya all you like - it may be inconvenient for your argument, but he has lived here pretty much all his life and has said he remembers the stadium as a young man when it was first opened. He wants to see it in a state we can all be proud of again. And so do I!
Mr G - no - why would there be evidence that professional rugby stadia reduce childhood obesity or have any effect on public health? That is a fatuous arugment, as well you know - the whole point is that this is going to be a COMMUNITY stadium for multi-purpose use and children running round all year on an all weather surface and with new all year athletics facilities, will most certainly benefit healthwise, as they will from all the associated work that the Foundation does. And please do go and tell all the kids locally that they aren't as entitled to the support the Foundation gives, because Luton and Watford are worse off than they are - the kids in the local estates and in Grahame Park or Brent Cross might just have an answer for you - and you won't like it too much. Let me know when you plan to do it, as I'd like to be there with a camera.
R&DW - Saracens would look pretty stupid having said at every opportunity that they are going to let schools use it for nothing. When they are trying to attract local people to go to matches, why on earth would they deliberately do something that would alienate the community? You all portray them as scheming PR supremos - to do that would be totally ridiculous! And as to your point on the letters of support - the website is way out of date. If you speak to the council, the number of letters in support far outweighs the ones objecting - and yes, many of them are from people outside the borough, but there are still many more in favour from those living inside Barnet, than there are those against it. The objections - as I have repeatedly explained - are pretty much exclusively from those living very near the stadium. Which is completely predictable - even understandable of course - but are not unanimous, even there.

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
8:21pm Sun 29 Jan 12

Community use for the stadium, schools get use FREE OF CHARGE, many more letters of support than objection...this ought to be allowed!! What a great asset for the community of Barnet to have once refurbished!

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DannyMan says...
6:25pm Mon 30 Jan 12

Interestingly the Planning Officers' Report states that the number of REAL letters received (as opposed to someone just signing a form letter that was stuck under their nose) was virtually identical on each side at a mere 200-ish each (and yes, one of them was mine). Given that objectors are always more vociferous than supporters, this suggest that the ranks of objectors really are very small and that there is almost certainly a large passive majority in favour.

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redrenault says...
8:08am Wed 1 Feb 12

Dannyman ... you obviously do not live in the immediate area or will be impacted at all by this development. I was out at the weekend and was still amazed by how many people still did not know anything about the situation at Copthall. With no local papers being delivered in the area and if no one had actually told you how would you know ?. People make use of the site but there are no signs up or enough council interaction. This is not just a two storey extension but the complete change of the area by an opportunistic company that will bring massive intrusion, traffic congestion and little economic benefit to the area. The food and beverage facilities will all be on site, car parks controlled by the company .. well they have to make the £18m back .. and they are starting with a current £6m loss for this year. I can see them knocking on the councils door within a few years if they got the site asking for hand outs. There is still little information about the additional events they would like to put on for junior rugby etc . ones that are maybe only 2-300 ! are there going to be parking restrictions on those days ? how many are there of these planned a year ? A corporate event with a few hundred big deal they can park on site I agree, but there is very little in the plans. Sorry a bit more free school use is not enough of a pay off especially as they use it already !! Kentish town FC .. goodbye to them & their community work too .. hundreds of kids kicked off .. Sunday league – bye bye !! Saracens find another site your not worth it ..

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
10:14am Wed 1 Feb 12

Redrenault....very pleasant response (!). Why not let Saracens show and prove to us what they are worth before you start shooting them down?! You have to give everyone a chance. Who knows - maybe you might get to like them. I doubt they bite....

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redrenault says...
10:38am Wed 1 Feb 12

Lionel,.. once a team like saracens is in . that is it they are in. From then on we ( as in the local residents) will have to be the ones to adapt to the changes which is a big ask.. in fact huge ask. We are not talking about trying a new shampoo or a window cleaner. I am sure they are very nice and play Rugby brilliantly .. and yes I have been to a number of games and even played .. but still do not think Mill Hill can handle such a club.

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saracenman says...
1:30pm Wed 1 Feb 12

Red Renault!

You are such a bitter and twisted person- Saracens have won the Community rugby Club awards and have a fantastic Charitable Foundation and do remarkable work with local schools.

You think this is avaricious, pernicious and nasty- You are so wrong. your attitude makes Canute look like a genius!

Why will you never give anyone the benefit of the doubt? You are selfish and ruthless.

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redrenault says...
1:58pm Wed 1 Feb 12

saracenman .. ohh look at you ! lol .. so no Christmas card from you then ? No one has disputed the charitable work they do .. but Mill Hill is not a crime ridden back water that requires you to ride to the rescue before its destroyed like Sodom & Gomorrah ! People were asked to trust Saracen at the beginning .. when 75% of the supporters were going to drive. That the plans were thought out .. carefully considering the local community & greenbelt ..and by your own admission – and EG . hmmm they were wrong and unsustainable. ! so you had the chance and blew it. Hence why people do not trust you. Next the plans do not go into enough detail . leave swathes of finer details out awaiting final permissions .. BS ..by then it’s too late you’re in and locals can do nothing about it. Is there a break clause in the lease .. NO .. so that is why so many people are against it... including me.. yep the nasty selfish downright evil local nimby !! grrr

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saracenman says...
6:08pm Wed 1 Feb 12

red renault - another non answer and glad you actually ahve put in writing what yiou are " yep the nasty selfish downright eviilo local nimby"

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Toucan says...
7:53pm Fri 3 Feb 12

Red Renault - I have noted your protestations are pretty much devoid of fact - so I feel I need to supply you some.

Quote from you "but Mill Hill is not a crime ridden back water " - Really ?

I guess you would be proud learn that it is in the top 20 list for most burgled! Or is burglary not a crime in Mill Hill ?

http://www.citywire.
co.uk/money/the-20-p
ostcodes-most-at-ris
k-of-burglary/a56351
5?ref=citywire-money
-latest-news-list

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