Councillor claims parking not solely to blame for high street's downturn (From Times Series)
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Councillor claims parking not solely to blame for high street's downturn
3:50pm Wednesday 17th October 2012 in News
By Natalie O'Neill
Councillor Dean Cohen
Parking problems are not solely to blame for a downfall in the number of shoppers visiting high streets, according to a Barnet councillor.
The comments made by Cllr Dean Cohen have outraged traders in High Road, North Finchley, who claim Barnet Council’s parking scheme has caused a 40 per cent drop in their sales.
Paul Shea, owner of Tally Ho Discount for 20 years, says the day the pay-by-cash machines were taken away from the high street is when his sales began to drop.
But Councillor Dean Cohen argues other factors such as the economy and internet shopping are also to blame.
Referring to a Transport for London town centre study, Cllr Cohen said: “Figures suggest there has been about a ten per cent decline year on year in people parking in our town centres. Traders are telling me their income is down much more than that, which suggests people are parking a bit less and shopping a lot less.
"We have to look at the wider context here. The figures show that only 14 per cent of shoppers drive to the high street. Clearly the challenge facing the high street is much broader than just parking.”
He added he is “more than happy” to talk to businesses about ways to support town centres and he is currently working on schemes to improve parking.
However, Helen Michael, owner of Cafe Buzz in High Road, said: “Saying the problems are not just down to parking is naive.
"We’ve been in a recession for three years now, and traders can put it to the day when footfall fell and the new parking scheme was introduced.
“People simply won’t come and park if it’s not cheap and easy but £2 for an hour in Finchley is ridiculous. The car parks are standing empty – this parking agenda is failing miserably.”
Comments(51)
baronsmirnoff
says...
4:21pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Instead of thinking you know it all listen to those who voted you in we can vote you out just as easily next election
james smyth
says...
5:34pm Wed 17 Oct 12
From what the traders are bleating on about it gives the impression that Barnet is this magical place in the whole world where the only reason trade is down is because of parking charges!
Dean Cohen is a councillor that is talking logic for a change unlike the traders!
The traders need to realise that just maybe their prices are not that competitive anymore or that they are so sour faced that you dont want to ever vist that shop again!
They bleat on about the parking charges forcing shoppers away yet try to find a space when you want one, the way they harp on you would think the bays are empty but they are not!
harvey_uk
says...
7:00pm Wed 17 Oct 12
MrObserver
says...
9:06pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Councilor / Barnet Council, take head, keeping cranking up the prices, make excuses, do nothing and watch the local shops die.
The high street is under great pressure from out of town shopping malls, internet shopping and you do nothing to encourage local people to shop in the local area.
Rog T
says...
9:25pm Wed 17 Oct 12
I will post the response of Cllr Dean Cohen to Helen Michael, when she addressed the Council for your benefit.
I would be very interested to see if you still think he talks sense after you've seen that.
I think you will find that there are plenty of empty bays in North Finchley. Do you really think traders would bother campaigning if they hadn't seen a dramatic fall off in business.
If you had experience of running a company, you would know that traders have better things to do than run campaigns which would have no effect on trade.
golders green spokesman
says...
10:12pm Wed 17 Oct 12
if the shop are not making so much money the rate will go down
why dont you help shops in barnet. the only reason i can think you dont help is they wont come to your company for cleaning
Mike NW7
says...
11:01pm Wed 17 Oct 12
Buzzing Helen
says...
12:27am Thu 18 Oct 12
Take a look at the car parks on Sunday as opposed to Saturday.
And thanks barnet council for making things easier in such tough times
What is Dean Cohen and Barnet council missing when Mary Portas and just about every other high street retailer expert has made it clear that the key to a successful high street is cheap easy parking.
And it has been widely documented in the national press in both left and right leaning newspapers that this is fact
Wakeup Mr Cohen and Mr Cornelius!
Buzzing Helen
says...
12:37am Thu 18 Oct 12
I'm sure Barnet Council think they are dealing with blithering idiots. They keep shootings themselves in the foot and then reloading and doing it again. And again...
Why not just listen. Forget the spin.
educated
says...
9:49am Thu 18 Oct 12
Mrs Angry, Broken Barnet blog
says...
9:50am Thu 18 Oct 12
Take his 'argument' at face value, however: that internet shopping & the recession is entirely to blame for the decline of our high streets. If that were true, all the more reason not to introduce the one thing that would make the situation worse, ie the parking policy designed for the purpose of extracting revenue, rather than serving the best interests of residents wishing to use their own shopping centres, either as business owners or customers. By their actions, this idiotic Tory council have pushed an already weakened local economy over the edge, and alienated every shopkeeper and small business owner in the borough, their natural electors.
james smyth
says...
10:41am Thu 18 Oct 12
No. You would mount a campaign about that!
The cost of everyday items has risen but that has nothing to do with parking charges or has it ? No its to do with the global economy,hence people have less cash in their pockets so will seek out ways to save,not grabbing a coffee on the way to work or even finding a cheaper cafe!
The council has a budget deficit,they need to fill that,there are only so many ways to do it,
Raise council tax or close this and that ?
How would you traders suggest the council fill the deficit created by central government cutbacks.
I cant wait for your replies!!
Richard Logue
says...
10:57am Thu 18 Oct 12
Dr Julia Hines
says...
11:18am Thu 18 Oct 12
1. Barnet Council have consistently argued that this is a borough which is particularly reliant on car travel. That is the reason that they argued for a derogation from the Mayor's policy of providing a maximum 0.7 car parking spaces/ residential unit, saying that in Barnet in particular it should be 1 space in the Core Strategy. You cannot rely on comparisons with other London boroughs in the shopping context and then argue you should have different planning rules.
2. It is clear that the downturn, reported by all traders, precisely coincided with the introduction of cashless parking and the rise in parking charges. Internet shopping and the recession are issues for the high street, but the timing does not correlate.
3. The other pressures on the high street - such as internet shopping and the recession are reasons to put extra support, by reducing the cost of parking and reintroducing cashless parking. They are not reasons to throw your hands up in despair and decide that the high street is doomed.
4. High street shopping is absolutely vital for older people, who may not drive. Local homeowners will see their the value of their properties fall if their local high street is dying.
5. The Council should be encouraging the local employment opportunities offered by its high streets, particularly as they will soon be in direct receipt of the business rates.
Headabovetheparapet
says...
12:36pm Thu 18 Oct 12
baronsmirnoff wrote:I know quite a few of these councillors socially, and I can honestly say that they are generally not bright, and are totally out of touch with reality. We need intelligent people to stand for office! The internet and shopping malls has already destroyed the High St to a degree, so lowering parking prices, and making it easy to park, has to happen as a duty of care to our towns. Talking about money, did Barnet ever get the millions back that it wrongly invested in Iceland? That was our money, and they have the cheek to raise revenue by sacrificing our town centres. Cohen should be holding public meetings to find out what WE want for the town, and clearing up the mess that Coleman inflicted on us all. WE PAY HIM!!!!
I no longer shop in North Finchley and only park in the Spires in Barnet where I can pay by cash, now most of my shopping is done at Brent Cross or the big supermarkets where I can park.
Instead of thinking you know it all listen to those who voted you in we can vote you out just as easily next election
GRG
says...
1:15pm Thu 18 Oct 12
educated
says...
3:08pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Rog T
says...
3:19pm Thu 18 Oct 12
There are a few holes in your analysis. Firstly the parking revenue the council receives is down, so they have lost money as well. The councils own figures prove this.
Secondly, the council doesn't set business rates, central govt do.
Third, if traders are experiencing a 40% downturn in business, this is a far greater amount than any rise in business rates would ever be.
If the council had consulted properly before making the changes, then this could have been avoided.
Headabovetheparapet
says...
6:28pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Cadwallader
says...
7:59pm Thu 18 Oct 12
That's like saying "I didn't drown your grandma, I just pushed her in, she did the rest."
What a maroon!
BarnetTrader
says...
8:15pm Thu 18 Oct 12
The heart of this problem is that Barnet council has become dependent on what is effectively a parking tax. And like a drug addict or alcoholic they are in denial, unable to grasp the reality of what they have done and continue to do.
THEY'VE GOT TO KICK THIS ILLEGAL TAX HABIT AND GROW UP!
Caring for the people AND businesses within the borough is the essential purpose of the civic body that is Barnet Council.
This means engaging with traders – NOT ONE councillor has visited businesses in my high street to ask how we are doing and what we would like to see done to improve trading conditions, be it parking or street cleaning. Cohen’s Consultation Survey was ridiculous in that of all the questions it asked there was only one tiny comment box to say what actually mattered. The rest of the questions were regarding how traders used their vehicles and how business employees parked when going to work. It looked like the council is seeking to gather more information to raise further taxes on us!
The council needs to pay heed to Eric Pickles, Mary Portas, The Federation of Small Businesses and all the other reports on the High Streets and changes in the retail environment.
At a very minimum they need to immediately restore parking arrangements to how they were prior to November 2011.
They need to SUPPORT businesses within the borough, not ASSET STRIP them!
They need to go further than November 2011 and provide some town centre parking incentives. This is simply obvious to all, except to a collection of addicts living in denial.
Pay and display machines need to be URGENTLY RESTORED and there should a period of free parking and lots more low priced short term parking - any shop keeper will tell you churn equals income. And perhaps a small bit of humility and apology leading to some recompense to the businesses that remain, having struggled to stay afloat.
Oh, and by the way, the Iceland money is back - the Conservatives are sitting on it, although lending it out and playing on the financial markets. It is being kept back as their election war chest - nice things will suddenly happen just before we vote them out.
Headabovetheparapet
says...
8:56pm Thu 18 Oct 12
Headabovetheparapet
says...
9:05pm Thu 18 Oct 12
So you don't need to know much about anything much, just who's who at the local golf club and the Rotarians. I am targeting the Tory lot here, as I do believe that the other parties put issues 'slightly' before ego. But then there are so many Tory supporters in Barnet. (Maybe I'll just move out with the rest of them)
Devonshire
says...
6:42am Sat 20 Oct 12
A more user friendly system needs to be developed which does not involve standing by the side of a busy road with traffic roaring past (and yes, I have to get out so I can walk and find what the number of the parking location is), trying to hear what is being said on a mobile phone, keying in to verify which car I am parking, where I am, how long I want to stay and then of all things the security code from my credit card presumably to prevent someone who has stolen my car and phone but not my card getting some free parking.
If charges were Barnet wide I could park anywhere and while sitting in the car dial and type in say 30 or 60. Everything else could be taken as read unless I wanted to change the car or card I had previously registered. Maybe even someone as non technical as me could cope with that.
educated
says...
10:08am Sat 20 Oct 12
Hunted999
says...
11:54am Sat 20 Oct 12
james smyth
says...
4:34pm Tue 23 Oct 12
educated wrote:YES and M&S is always busy!
If you want to park in Mill Hill, you may as well go to M&S where you pay your £2, but if you do shopping in there, the charge is refunded.
What a super idea,instead of the traders being so down in the mouth they should embrace change.
Make their stores inviting, entice shoppers in, offer to pay their parking fee after a certain spend level. Make it easy for shoppers,sell parking cards and offer a pen to fill it in.
Always moaning about everything isnt going to fill the tills,Some of the shopkeepers are so sour faced,Im surprised that half their stock hasnt gone off!
Headabovetheparapet
says...
4:38pm Tue 23 Oct 12
Buzzing Helen
says...
4:47pm Tue 23 Oct 12
Watch this space
educated
says...
4:51pm Tue 23 Oct 12
Hopefully he talked some common sense with you.
Buzzing Helen
says...
4:55pm Tue 23 Oct 12
Give the man a chance.
If not, watch this space...
james smyth
says...
10:43am Wed 24 Oct 12
Headabovetheparapet wrote:Its not me that needs to get a grip!
How patronising. M&S have their own car park which doesn't involve a mobile phone or searching around for parking cards. They use the easy and normal way to pay for parking. THAT is why people flock there, and the fact that it is M&S....For God's sake get a grip JS.
It is the traders who find every excuse to bellyache.
There is no need to search around to buy parking cards IF the traders had an ounce of sense and actually stocked them for the convienance of THEIR customers.
Yes the scheme is not without its flaws but instead of whinge whinge whinge move on and work with it .
All this hysteria about being stood on the street phoning the parking through bank card in hand isnt safe is madness. Who in their right mind would do that? Whoever does obviously has no commonsense,The right thing to do is to sit in your car,for a start its safer and secondly your wont get a ticket.
But then again,why not simply buy a few parking cards at a time,Problem solved then too if you dont have a mobile phone and if you cannot fill in a parking card then maybe its time you shouldnt be on the road.
The real fact is regardless of whether its pay by cash or by phone or by using a parking card,is that you get your parking fee refunded that people shop at M&S because they have commonsense and THINK about their customers.
Why dont you traders do the same and offer your customers their parking fee back for a certain spend level.
You can offset this expenditure against your tax return.
Start thinking for yourselves instead of being like sheep and just bleating on and on.
Yes times are hard for everyone,so make customers want to shop in your store,take a long hard look at yourself,your shop,your stock,WOULD you want to shop there??
Give the customers some customer service instead of just a grunt,a smile instead of a sour face.
Embrace change or get left behind .
educated
says...
10:56am Wed 24 Oct 12
Maybe you have stopped to use a cash machine, or buy a newspaper, or a bar of chocolate etc. For the first, you can look both ways and hope there is not a CEO in the facility, but as for the others where you have to go inside the store, possibly queue up behind others (away from site of your car), just for a small purchase, it may not be worth taking the risk, but is it worth £1 to buy a voucher?
Headabovetheparapet
says...
11:01am Wed 24 Oct 12
M&S can bulk buy and have huge clout. Small shops can't. I know because I am up against supermarkets all the time, and can only buy certain items that compete with their prices.
Rents are very high where I am.
I think that your comments are actually really insulting. You lump traders together, and say that we are all sullen and short-sighted. Retail is a nightmare at the best of times. We can't decide on our wage like ego inflated councillors. I am standing by the traders of Barnet because I understand how hard and desperate it is. Dismissive traders lose customers for their attitude, and rightly so, but to be kicked in the teeth by their own council who they PAY, is totally remiss.
Headabovetheparapet
says...
11:02am Wed 24 Oct 12
M&S can bulk buy and have huge clout. Small shops can't. I know because I am up against supermarkets all the time, and can only buy certain items that compete with their prices.
Rents are very high where I am.
I think that your comments are actually really insulting. You lump traders together, and say that we are all sullen and short-sighted. Retail is a nightmare at the best of times. We can't decide on our wage like ego inflated councillors. I am standing by the traders of Barnet because I understand how hard and desperate it is. Dismissive traders lose customers for their attitude, and rightly so, but to be kicked in the teeth by their own council who they PAY, is totally remiss.
james smyth
says...
11:05am Wed 24 Oct 12
Regarding Mary Portas ,yes she has commented on the fact that cheap parking has a role to play however it does not matter if parking is free people have to actually WANT to shop in the shops!
Parking is not free at Westfield and its packed! Because people want to shop there,the stores are visually appealing and the staff helpfull.....No moaning minnies!!
Times are hard not just caused by the parking woes, its lots of issues,costs are rising in all sectors,you as a cafe owner must have noticed a rise in your supplies,have you launched a campaign about those rises??
Its easy to blame the parking for traders downturn but the reality is that its not just that,it just was introduced at a convienant time to be blamed.
Traders need to adapt to change, yes I find the parking scheme at times a pain,sometimes ive left my phone at home or no signal but then Ive a bit of commonsense (although others may doubt that) and so have a few parking cards kept in the car along with a pen! Yes the older folk may find it a bit confusing but then help them. Everything changes and people adapt and get used to it. Im not saying everychange is good but often things have to change. The cost of emptying the cash meters,the maintenence,replacem
ent, banking charges and the safety of the staff collecting the money has had an influencing factor into bringing in the scheme. In the wider picture Health and Safety is a reason that lots of things are changed or outsourced,to prevent litagation from employess who have done something that the Health and Safety brigade dont agree with,sometimes the most trivial obvious thing,for example,not having a sign stating that an oven may be hot.
All this energy spent whinging on and on about the parking SHOULD be spent much more constructively into enticing shoppers to visit the traders shops.
james smyth
says...
11:27am Wed 24 Oct 12
Thank you for your comments,the contents are which were noted the first time,no need to repost them for a second time.
It is interesting that you make the statement that "you have struggled on and off for over twenty years financially acording to rates,interest rates,rents and recessions " and yet your borough has "normal parking conditions" (whatever that is ? would be good for clarity to have an explanation. Do you mean that people pay to park,just like in Barnet or are you referring to the method of paying?) and even a "free period" for quick purchases.
Therefore by your own admission even with free parking you struggled ,so that would indicate that parking had nothing to do with your takings or indeed any other traders takings. So going by that logic,if there was free parking in Barnet then it would make no difference to the traders.
When Woolworths closed down,I never heard the owners bleat on that their demise was down to Barnets parking charges and in fact they closed before the new scheme was implemented.
So all this blaming the council for traders downturn because of the parking is really just a smokescreen for the reasons you have pointed out in your repetitive post.
As for having to make a note of the number to call for parking,again commonsense would be to have it stored in your phone,yes you would have to remember the 4 digit location number,but thats surely not to difficult?
Headabovetheparapet
says...
11:41am Wed 24 Oct 12
This is from one of my Facebook friends who moved out of the borough as he couldn't bear this council a moment longer. " Even before I left Barnet I was only shopping in the borough where it did not involve that dreadful telephone payment system, i.e. Brent Cross or the Spires. Otherwise Enfield or Watford. Now Watford all the time, and then only have to pay in centre of town. In the Harlequin Centre it is one of those things where you pay when you are going to leave for the amount you have actually used, and you can pay in the old-fashioned way, i.e. by stuffing coins in a machine." Apologies for posting twice. It didn't appear to 'go' the first time.
james smyth
says...
12:13pm Wed 24 Oct 12
I am sorry but I really fail to see what all the fuss is over using a phone to pay for the parking,it takes about 30 seconds once its all been sett up.Often you dont need to even leave your car,if you have clocked the location number as you glide into your freely available space(freely available space because as the traders claim the high street is vacant)
Even if you have to walk to a post to find the location number ,get back in your car,dial,pay job done, a minute max. If its taking longer then your doing something wrong.
Using the cards is easy.
I am really confused as to what all the fuss is.
Yes the cost is now £1 per half hour but parking charges always rise nearly every year.
And as for all this hysteria over the scheme I really think it all just a convienant excuse rather than look at the bigger picture,which is the global downturn.
Are Barnet traders that blinkered into believing that if parking was free that there would be a stampede onto the high street into their shops.
If thats the case then why does this not happen on a sunday?
educated
says...
12:36pm Wed 24 Oct 12
james smyth
says...
7:59pm Wed 24 Oct 12
educated wrote:What is it to you where i shop and how i pay for my parking? At least i do support local traders in my area instead of driving out to Tescos for a coffee to avoid paying for parking! (look at your previous posts) that makes you a complete hypocrite,getting on here spouting this and that about the parking and the traders,then you shop elsewhere!!
Mr Smyth - where do you shop? How do you pay for your parking?
But to settle your narrow mind I shop in the beautiful Borough of Barnet and how I pay for my parking is mentioned in the above posts,however because you obviously do not pay attention,i will repeat.
By phone takes no more than 30 seconds once registered and the cards take even less,i keep some in my car in case my phone has no signal.
I would change your id because it certainly does not reflect you !
educated
says...
8:11pm Wed 24 Oct 12
Why should I pay exorbitant parking charges, when I can get it free?
I presume you have 'free minutes' on your phone that you can afford to ring up LBB to register your parking charge. My phone is PAYG so I would get charged everytime. If I wanted to use a voucher, I need to know where to buy them. Unfortunately LBB does not indicate where these are on sale. Under the telephone number and the code where you have parked, they could print a list of local retailers where they are available.
As a resident of LBB I have no idea where my nearest (or any) retailer is who sells them.
james smyth
says...
11:27pm Wed 24 Oct 12
Your statement of "why should I pay when I can get it for free" is an extremely sad reflection on you as a person,it is shortsighted people like you that is the very reason that this country is in the mess it is,expecting everything to be handed to them on a plate.
If you do not know of any places that sell the parking cards in the areas that you shop then shame on you.
You claim to be supporting the traders but if you really did then you would know that lots of traders have realised that by selling the cards they are tempting people in.
Go to Mill Hill and lots of the traders there have signs that they have made stating that they sell the cards,some traders have even had ones made to go onto the posts that have the parking location.
You are just making a simple process hard for yourself.
As for free minutes,yes I have a contract phone,but the minutes are not free,I pay for them monthly.
Is there not anything that you do not understand?
As for thinking that you have touched a raw nerve,sorry to disapoint but I am much too thick skinned for that.
james smyth
says...
12:28am Fri 2 Nov 12
Buzzing Helen wrote:We are.......however like your cafe.....(because of the council, you claim) very little is happening!
He did.
Give the man a chance.
If not, watch this space...
Buzzing Helen
says...
1:33pm Mon 5 Nov 12
The council are about to change your wonderful system because it does not work and is too expensive
Buzzing Helen
says...
1:34pm Mon 5 Nov 12
The council are about to change your wonderful system because it does not work and is too expensive
james smyth
says...
1:57pm Wed 7 Nov 12
Why dont you learn how to post correctly so you dont repeat yourself?
Also we are all waiting for your revelations that you so proudly claimed on here,that you would.
,You said to "give the man a chance" well we have given you a very long time!
As for all this bleating on about the parking charges driving shoppers away, are you saying that the High Street is awash with shoppers on Sundays and Bank Holidays as well as after 6pm when the parking is free?
And are you traders claiming that shoppers drive elsewhere out of the area which costs more in petrol than the measly £1 parking charge?
How many of your fellow traders sell the parking cards in order to make things easier for YOUR customers and in fact do you actually sell them?
Headabovetheparapet
says...
2:15pm Wed 7 Nov 12
Cadwallader
says...
7:44pm Wed 7 Nov 12
james smyth wrote:It seems Brian Coleman didn't want to use the scheme either though did he?
Headabovetheparapet wrote:Its not me that needs to get a grip!
How patronising. M&S have their own car park which doesn't involve a mobile phone or searching around for parking cards. They use the easy and normal way to pay for parking. THAT is why people flock there, and the fact that it is M&S....For God's sake get a grip JS.
It is the traders who find every excuse to bellyache.
There is no need to search around to buy parking cards IF the traders had an ounce of sense and actually stocked them for the convienance of THEIR customers.
Yes the scheme is not without its flaws but instead of whinge whinge whinge move on and work with it .
All this hysteria about being stood on the street phoning the parking through bank card in hand isnt safe is madness. Who in their right mind would do that? Whoever does obviously has no commonsense,The right thing to do is to sit in your car,for a start its safer and secondly your wont get a ticket.
But then again,why not simply buy a few parking cards at a time,Problem solved then too if you dont have a mobile phone and if you cannot fill in a parking card then maybe its time you shouldnt be on the road.
The real fact is regardless of whether its pay by cash or by phone or by using a parking card,is that you get your parking fee refunded that people shop at M&S because they have commonsense and THINK about their customers.
Why dont you traders do the same and offer your customers their parking fee back for a certain spend level.
You can offset this expenditure against your tax return.
Start thinking for yourselves instead of being like sheep and just bleating on and on.
Yes times are hard for everyone,so make customers want to shop in your store,take a long hard look at yourself,your shop,your stock,WOULD you want to shop there??
Give the customers some customer service instead of just a grunt,a smile instead of a sour face.
Embrace change or get left behind .
james smyth
says...
10:33am Thu 15 Nov 12
But if your provide the facts as to what your infering then we will be able to judge!
MrMustard says...
4:19pm Wed 17 Oct 12
As ever the council use soundbites and don't provide any facts (remember that stupid graph that Mr Reasonable has completely discredited). Let us see the last 10 years of parking prices for Long Lane car park plotted against the income by quarter and watch the price line climb whilst the income line slopes down. It is called price elasticity.
It is incredible that the cabinet are the only people who can't see the blindingly obvious.