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Barnet Council approves Saracens's move to Copthall

10:22pm Thursday 2nd February 2012 in News Photograph of the Author By Natalie O'Neill

Plans to relocate Saracens rugby club to Copthall Stadium were approved by Barnet Council tonight.

Councillors unanimously voted in favour for the Premiership club to develop the Sixties athletics stadium into a 10,000 seated venue.

The new ground will be used for up to 16 Saracens home matches a year and remain open for community use on non match days.

Comments(58)

Dr Julia Hines says...
11:27pm Thu 2 Feb 12

I have to say I am pleased about this.

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nw7resident says...
11:39pm Thu 2 Feb 12

Overwhelming support - not just from the councillors, but from the room and the overflow room. I had to laugh when Brian Coleman made some ridiculous point about the average age of Saracens fans being too old to use bikes to get there - Someone shouted out 'why not use taxis?'

And Matthew Offord seemed to be quoting from the first set of plans - not the revised ones. I think John Marshall summed it up when he said that if it wasnt passed, future generations would look back and think we were 'bloody daft'.
Precisely.

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Devonshire says...
4:40am Fri 3 Feb 12

This is excellent news. I live only a short walk from the stadium and frankly have no interest in rugby but I am delighted we will now have a really first class facility for community use.
Who knows, I may even stroll along to watch a Saracens game occasionally. Commonsense has triumphed.

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redrenault says...
7:50am Fri 3 Feb 12

Well that was no surprise ! We knew they would get approval .. I did chuckle . I left work early .. got there 615 and guess what the Saracens office were there ..Nick Leslau was there with his mates and office bods and few strategically placed pensioners - the ones with the bushy eyebrows and think rugby can sort out the worlds issues !! Either way the room had been populated – early.. by those with a vested interest .. and very few locals. Now I can understand why so few people take an interest in politics . the council meeting was a three line whip and no-one was even allowed to vote against the Saracens.. there are normally more objections to a new bollard being put up ! There was no debate ... no questioning of the Saracens plans just a gentle nod and agreement. If there had been more probing and detail the outcome may have been respected. To have the elected MP & member of the GLA come out vehemently against it . a local action groups issues raised and there were some REAL issues not just Nimby comments to be difficult, makes the outcome a farce. Let see how the “Barnet Times” report it .. still waiting to see a critical comment about a single element of the plan at all !!!.. a tad suspect ??

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ross86 says...
10:03am Fri 3 Feb 12

A fantastic decision and one that will serce the local community well for years to come! I have to say that the athlete spoke brilliantly, just listen to the passion he had for youth sport and the good that it can do in all aspects of life. The NIMBY's should now retire back to their armchairs and look for the next thing to campaign against!

Coleman decided to lay into the elderly all evening, Offord was rude and abrupt when dealing with questions from his local constitutes post meeting. The pair of them need to sling their hook as far as I am concerned!

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
10:19am Fri 3 Feb 12

Redrenault.....i applaud your character....the nimbys took one hell of a beating last night, or at least I thought there were nimbys (where were they all??!?) Cometh the hour, cometh the moment, the real picture was shown on the levels on support out there for Saracens. One word - WOW! The level of LOCAL support in that room was nearly as unanimous as the vote itself. 6-0 I believe it was......one word WOW!

Barnet should be very proud right now. A moment to remember last night. Offord must be really quite worried now with his position in parliament.....dont blame him. Whats the expression - 'egg on your face?!?!'

Redrenault - i will genuinely still enjoy these online blogging debates we have...everyone is entitled to speak. Who knows what the next topic will be?! Ed Griffiths to run as local MP.....?! Coleman to get the sack?!

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Grey Haired supporter says...
11:41am Fri 3 Feb 12

There were lots of local supporters of the scheme who appeared mainly in opposition to the extremely offensive Mr Coleman (slandering all in his path including the Times Newspaper group allegedly 'bought' by Saracens) and the wishy washy Matthew Offord (desperately trying to retain his very slim majority). Democracy at work - put the conspiracy theories away, its a well constructed scheme, a case well put. As one who lives very close by, I wish it well. By the way, rugby may not solve everything but neither does negative thinking being supported by self serving politicians. Listen to the clear and simple message espoused collectively by the committee - don't be daft!

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redrenault says...
11:47am Fri 3 Feb 12

Dear Grey Haired supporter ... there is not all negative thinking it is allowing a way for both to co-exist, but what is proposed is a pay off and the local residents the ones having t carry the heavy load. So for the borough to have a refurb site anyone within a mile can say goodbye to actually being able to get out of their houses on rugby days and still no clear definition or restrictions on events that could still attract thousands of people .. it stinks ..

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Grey Haired supporter says...
12:06pm Fri 3 Feb 12

"allowing a way to co-exist" !!? - I now look forward to your positive proposals for co-existence with Saracens
I live within a mile and have used Copthall actively for 40 years - it need this improvement - I have much more serious concerns about a totally inapropriate school development in Daws lane! More than 16 days disruption there ---

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
12:20pm Fri 3 Feb 12

Now now RR.....come and join the fun. Everyone will be out enjoying themselves - you should too!

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redrenault says...
12:20pm Fri 3 Feb 12

disruption !! what for 30 mins in the morning & 30 mins in the evening ?? .. now that is sad. With no effect over the weekend .. when most people are enjoying their free time.. BUT 10,000 people and no mention of plans for other large scale events .. what planet are you on ??!! There will be far more congestion from saracens than the school i can promise you that !!

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Grey Haired supporter says...
2:06pm Fri 3 Feb 12

Strange that the school proposal generated far more oppostion and heat than this proposal - keep eating the sour grapes.
PS - same planet, different outlook.

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DannyMan says...
3:37pm Fri 3 Feb 12

Start saving those pennies for the Judicial Review RR, if you dare. You do realise you'll have to pay Saracens' costs as well as the Council's when you lose? Alternatively you could take those blinkers off and look a this brilliant scheme as it really is instead of the way your paranoid, small-minded nature makes it appear to you.

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redrenault says...
3:40pm Fri 3 Feb 12

I think someone has been on the Sanatagen ! There was far more opposition for the Copthal site. The school in Daws lane .. and yes I am a neighbour, is needed.. it’s a perfect site and would cause far less intrusion than the saracen proposal. If I recall that got passed the other day ? hmm .. it must coincide with you picking up your pension.. **** kids !!

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Grey Haired supporter says...
5:40pm Fri 3 Feb 12

Sorry to disappoint you, still nowhere near a pension, live near schools, have kids, train kids in sport, -sportsman, just happen to have grey hair. However, luckily I don't seem to suffer from myopia
Too much to do now - hope you calm down, bye bye

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Shimbee says...
6:55pm Fri 3 Feb 12

Is all this rejoicing coming from the same people who opposed Barnet FC making Copthall their home several years ago?
Great that Copthall is finally getting redeveloped but why did Barnet Council prefer to screw over their local football club in favour of a rugby team with no ties to the borough. Quite frankly it stinks.

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Devonshire says...
5:45am Sat 4 Feb 12

Redrenault thinks one hour of disruption caused by school traffic every weekday during the rush hour for about 40 weeks a year - say 200 hours of disruption per year is not significant but about 3 hours of disruption on 16 days a year - say 48 hours and at a time when roads are quiet is a major problem. I don't follow the logic.

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nw7resident says...
1:40pm Sat 4 Feb 12

Shimbee - I dont want to see Barnet FC leave the borough either - but the two plans for Copthall are very different. The main point is the stadium's open design and the fact that the Barnet FC design meant that the athletics track would have had to be relocated. The way the Bees have been treated is dreadful - and I am a great supporter of trying to do something about Underhill - but that isn't the fault of the rugby club. And you are wrong in one important fact - Saracens have many many ties to this borough. Including a very longstanding partnership with Barnet RFC - which used to actually be called Barnet Saracens RFC - and school and club links across Barnet which have gone on for many years. They played at Bramley Road for decades - which may not strictly speaking be within the boundaries of Barnet - but is less than 8 miles away by car and much less as the crow flies.
One of the biggest falsehoods promulgated by those against is that Saracens fans live in Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire - yes of course they have fans based there - but they also have many many fans through Barnet and Enfield. They started in 1876 in Hampstead on the Heath Extension - the bit that falls into LB Barnet! We should be uniting to promote sport in Barnet - and I hope we will.

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redrenault says...
1:31pm Sun 5 Feb 12

Dear Devonshire ... What would you like instead ? If you think it is just the 16 games a year you are mistaken .. There will be plenty of other events which as they are below 3000 people do not count. So when it comes to junior rugby events, cup games and whatever the Saracens actually fancy doing to raise additional revenue there will be nothing you can do or say for about 99 years !! The term of the lease .. Also after 5 years they will be able to and have free reign to do what they want ... Won't they Mr Leslau ???!!!
Going back to the original question..what would you like there Mr Devonshire ?? A less Jewish sounding school possibly ? Or just redevelopment but not impacting you at all ?

RR

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nw7resident says...
7:14pm Sun 5 Feb 12

And just what exactly would be wrong with having junior rugby events there RR? - Saracens sponsor the middlesex and herts junior leagues and they already hosted two or three there... I don't think the world ended as a result. Far as I'm concerned that is what a community stadium is for. (that includes Barnet, need I remind you...?)

And let's just sit up and take note of who is trying to slant the objection over the disruption around the school into a racial argument. Not Devonshire. You. Devonshire merely quite rightly questioned your logic -

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NW7 James says...
7:28pm Sun 5 Feb 12

I can see both sides of the argument here. Clearly there will be major traffic implications of copthall being redeveloped, especially for those who live very close by but I am sure that there will be great benefits as well I having so much investment in the area.

What I don't get it why so people here are gassing on about the new school on daws lane!?!? Seems a little odd to me as the two are totally unrelated.

What really shocks me is just how much certain people on nw7 can't deal with change. It can be good you know!!!!

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Mr_Growser says...
10:50am Mon 6 Feb 12

The outcome of the Planning Committee meeting was never in doubt. The numpties of Barnet have fallen for the Saracens propaganda, or, worse, have taken the decision to throw that part of Mill Hill and the Green Belt away to save a few bob. Remeber Barnet is very short of cash (not short enough to try and up Councillors allowances, maybe, but still short). When will Saracens realise this is a very dead end - the wrong design in the wrong place - and I forecast that will be when Boris turns the plans down. Or maybe when Eric Pickles stops this crazed scheme. It ought not to be allowed!

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nw7resident says...
2:45pm Mon 6 Feb 12

Welcome back Mr Growser! What took you so long???
I see - now those of us who support the plans are numpties are we? Well in that case - I'd rather be a numpty than a NIMBY! And as usual - there's a miligram of truth in your reply - yes - the COUNCIL CANT AFFORD TO SORT COPTHALL OUT - and it needs sorting. Desperately. And this isnt going to cost us a penny! And once again - this isn't going to throw that part of Mill Hill away - it's going to make it a whole lot better for a lot more people. So let me paraphrase the eminently sensible John Marshall (rather than your proponent, the - well - I'm not really sure how you'd describe him - Brian Coleman)
Don't be daft!

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redrenault says...
3:26pm Mon 6 Feb 12

NW7 .. i got an idea .. avoid Page street .. avoid Bunns lane .. extend the CPZ .. Get the saracens to give guidance on what other large group events are going to be held on the site .. then it might be worh discussing things. until then its too much of unknown entity to leave unopposed. You would not make any investment without knowing all the downsides and risks. You would not buy a house without doing a survey. Unfortunatly there are too many questions left open ended ... and thus risky !! Mr Wray and old Nick Lealau . why not give the answers ?? is there stuff to hide ? Have we struck a nerve ? or is this becoming a thorn in your side ? having to provide more colour on your long term plans and possible property intentions within the area ?

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
5:11pm Mon 6 Feb 12

RR....Not really a 'thorn' is it since its got the go ahead now...

This is being allowed!

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Bazster says...
10:17pm Mon 6 Feb 12

Lionel, ..Thats just not true .. this is not finished. Just because the council are guttless wonders .. the Barnet Times journalists seemed won over by the saracen PR machine refusing to question the long term intentions of the club and Nigel Wray & esp Nick Leslau. Put in restrictions and break clauses every 5 years if there is nothing to worry about ! That would act as a good check & balance. But no that may restrict future plans. We will see how things develop. I went to the council meeting ..ran out of work early and even before i got there the main room was full. even the security laughed .. They may as well have come in the same minibus . looked like office staff all turned up ! it was funny..

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nw7resident says...
12:15am Tue 7 Feb 12

I was there early as well - half an hour - and yes the main room was full - but strangely enough, even in the second room which didnt appear to have ANY saracens staff, and which was also full - they had to bring in extra chairs - there were only about a dozen people against the proposals and the rest were vocally in support! I counted. How do you explain that, then? In any case - the main chamber must have held about seventy or eighty people - maybe more. I saw the Saracens staff afterwards. There must have been about four or five all in jackets - not hiding who they were. Edward Griffiths was there - but then he was speaking - And someone told me that Nick Leslau was there as well - well he would be - seeing as how he is planning to put his money into sorting Copthall out for us all. Nigel Wray wasn't there - (at least I didnt see him) but then he couldn't win either way, could he? If he had been, I expect you would have criticised him for it. I'm sure you'll criticise him for being absent as well! You just cant accept that people don't agree with you, can you? Or that plenty of local people support this scheme! It has to be some great conspiracy. I find THAT funny.

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redrenault says...
1:23pm Tue 7 Feb 12

apparently a little bit of Poll manipulation .. so any rugby fan in London can now influence the local residents & ride rough shod over what is a true dermocratic process.. and I show you ... from teh Rugby Network saracen chat page ...

Re: ALL CLUBS' Fans! If u have a London Postcode ....
Posted by: BarnetSarrie (IP Logged)
Date: 06 February, 2012 17:31


Thanks - moving it back to the top
Anyone else with a London postcode?
Actually anyone who knows anyone with a London postcode who will support Copthall?

A sign of desperation and typical underhand manipulation. Is this something to expect from saracens thier supporters ? If so what is next ??

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saracenman says...
1:36pm Tue 7 Feb 12

Red Renault- just gracefully accept defeat and for Mr Offord to state that he had thousands of objections and when questioned grudgingly admitted 1700! - really sums up the NIMBYS.

As for Brian Coleman- he is just past it and to accuse Saracens of having "bought" the paper was quite disgraceful.

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redrenault says...
1:45pm Tue 7 Feb 12

so where is the balanced commentfrom the Barnet Times ?? hmm there is none. Even when the journos were asked about the comment when Boris visited .. they put it out two days later .. still stinks

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nw7resident says...
2:48pm Tue 7 Feb 12

Thng is though RR - they are right. Once Barnet council passed it, it did become a London wide issue. Barnet - ie the local council passed it - whatever you may think of their decision - and you have made that patently clear.

Borough boundaries are an entirely political thing anyway ... people only a few miles away had no say before - even though they might have benefited from new facilities. Copthall was never used only by Barnet residents .. especially in athletics terms. People travelled from outside London to use the track. I was told at my son's local rugby club that Saracens specifically told people NOT to attend the planning meeting unless they were Barnet residents because it was a local matter. You cant blame them for wanting to get involved now .. at least I don't.
As for Barnet Times - you are being unfair. I remember criticising them - and pointing it out to you - for being anti Saracens after the Boris meeting because they suddenly ran a negative story!!! Strikes me if we both feel hard done by, they must be getting it about right!

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trnquility-no-crime says...
4:36pm Tue 7 Feb 12

Well, the wonderful sportsman who spoke forgot to say how he won all his medals without need or help from Sarancens! Then the MP who said it's the development is all free, it's free, what are we thinking about.
I tell you what was going through my head, although I restrained myself from shouting out unlike some of the
over zealous supporters of Saracens.........THE
RE'S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH and that adage has never been proved wrong. Don't let money talk, once again. The local voters of Mill Hill and Hendon are vastly against this development. Why are Saracens supporters, living outside the area, even having their points and views considered?

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Sarah-nw4 says...
9:11pm Tue 7 Feb 12

To trnquility-no-crime - how wrong you are im afraid.

Support for Saracens AND Copthall revival is HUGE! If you were in the meeting and cleared your ears out you would have heard the amount of support compared to the minimal ANTI through the medium of clapping! Never seen so much support when it was needed most.

People want to the stadium revitalised and used to its full potential...currentl
y - it is dying. Saracens well done with all your work thus far.

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Bazster says...
10:31pm Tue 7 Feb 12

Copthall can be a community hub . but there is an alternative to selling out to the corporate animal. The meeting last week was well attended by both parties but the venom and hatred from the saracen supporters was a disgrace. No-one is willing to realise that the local residents would love to see the site used more ... and it can be..but the disruption, congestion and reduction of access to the surrounding areas at weekends and for eventsoutside the non 16 stipulated games is a huge price to pay. Come up with an alternative solution or proposal. Make copthall car free .. or zero access from page street and bunns lane.Something so our lives and access is not completely cut off. Rather than bully and berate residents for standing up to the now hated saracen. A great way to win the locals over eh !!Ed - Nigel wray & Nick Leslau .. you should be ashamed ..

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saracenman says...
8:17am Wed 8 Feb 12

Bazter! What a ridiculous commment " venom and hatred" you really are clutching at straws to make such a remark.

the only venom and hatred were Coleman's remarks.

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Davidaj says...
9:00am Wed 8 Feb 12

Its a great pity that money and commerce and personal interest are voted ahead the everyday lives of local residents. After this disaster happens how can we hold these councillors and planers to account. The traffic plans have been made vased upon desk research with walkingg figures that are incorrect.
Every week i have problems with university student parking across my drive, due to poor planning decision and inproper provision for parking when the university was developed. Now i will have weekend hassle to look forwards to because of inadequate parking provision. 16 games a year is misleading it will be the commercial use of this every week to make it pay.

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saracenman says...
9:10am Wed 8 Feb 12

another nimby remark based on no foundations whatsoever

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redrenault says...
10:32am Wed 8 Feb 12

saracenman ... I love the way you berate any local "Nimby" as you put it .. provide a solution that allows local residents access over weekends to their own homesand streets ! If the locals had not addressed your patheic initial plans there would be 75% of your fans driving. Its like they put in the initial plans as a PR stunt because they were so rediculously thought out. Schools already use the site and yes the foundation does some good work .. ( as long as they are in the area - so tough luck for the Watford kids eh !!) We live in the area and do actually know what impact congestion has .. in fact far better than a plonker in a dayglo vest and clip board !

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Davidaj says...
10:58am Wed 8 Feb 12

Saracenman is obviously part of their pr machine. Comments i made are based upon Saracens documentation combined with actual knowledge of this environment on a daily basis. Many Figures are incorrect, street summaries incorrect. Stadium footprint change -correct, visual mass and impact on the local environment - incorrect. Green belt was created for a reason.

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nw7resident says...
11:33am Wed 8 Feb 12

I really do love this!
Saracenman makes no bones about being a fan - but because he disagrees with you - he is 'part of the pr machine!' Davidaj - go and put a note on the university student's car and tell him not to be so selfish! I've had exactly the same thing happen - and when it was pointed out, the driver apologised. You are right - that is unacceptable behaviour and I would also be annoyed!
RR - once AGAIN you make the same flawed argument - we all agree the original plan had too much provision for parking - its old news - which is why Saracens LISTENED AND CHANGED them!!! Locals didnt address the initial plans at all. They made their case - without hysterics - and Saracens changed their plan in response. To me that demonstrates a willingness to work with us and act if there is a problem. No, it won't be 'tough luck' for the Watford kids (and I assume you would also include kids in the rest of Hertfordshire and other areas of north london where the foundation has run programmes - if you actually knew anything about them at all) but sorry to burst your bubble - they dont work that way ... They will recruit additional staff specifically to work with Barnet kids - and continue to do all the good stuff they do with everyone else! I met their foundation director at the council meeting and he told me their plans.

And I am sorry if you bristle so much whenever anyone uses the word NIMBY - but it does stand for 'not in my back yard' - and I am sorry but when I read some of these posts, it seems entirely appropriate here!

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
12:23pm Wed 8 Feb 12

For the sack of everyone......16 DAYS a YEAR.....16 DAYS a YEAR......thats all! Yes there will be other events but it is ridiculous to suggest 'everyday lives will be changed'.

Saracens are doing this for the COMMUNITY. It is in the club's interest to win everyone over - including the nimbys - they want to encourage massive local support...that way maybe then could get traffic down to 20% - who knows. Every Barnet resident is a potential customer in their eyes. This is a massive opportunity for Barnet and I'm glad the barnet councillors are making the right decision in this case!

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saracenman says...
1:29pm Wed 8 Feb 12

hear hear Lionel - the voice of sanity.

Try getting that message over to Matthew Offord and Brian Coleman!

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redrenault says...
1:42pm Wed 8 Feb 12

I love it Lionel & old saracenman .. the voices of perceived wisdom ! only 16 days .. other events ? but we won’t go into any detail about those ones .. anything under 3000 people does not matter ! You have both conveniently left out those details ! what are these other events – how many ? parking restrictions ? when and how ? Everyone is wrong and you are right ? is that it .. we do not care for Rugby but we do care for the people and teams that currently use the site and the traffic the saracens will bring with them. We want to be able to use our streets .. is that so hard to understand..?? what part are you finding hard to comprehend and follow .. let me spell it . T-R-A-F-F-I-C .... in small residential streets we do not want it or need it .. yes on our doorstep because that is where we live ! Prevent the blocking of the immediate streets and you might win some support. But..There will never be massive local support – you will be relying on outside fans. The councillors are doing this for one reason .. to get their debt down.. in fact have you reduced yours yet ? or is it still knocking around £6million .. ?

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Davidaj says...
2:48pm Wed 8 Feb 12

'Saracens are doing this for the COMMUNITY.'!!

Yeah right... As usual it's about money... those with expecting to get their own way at the expense of others. There is no way this will be run as a charitable venture! Once in place the running costs and capital expenditure will require it to generate a return. There will be many events put in place with no provision for adequate parking. The 16 games is the tip of the iceberg. With this scenario, once built the true level of negative impact will be seen and no one will never be able to correct it then.

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redrenault says...
3:28pm Wed 8 Feb 12

Thank you Davidaj .. someone else who see through teh smoke & mirrors & those who " ... have dream !!"

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Mr_Growser says...
3:36pm Wed 8 Feb 12

Whatever your point of view, watching the BarnetBugle video should make you ashasmed of the numpties sitting on the Planning Committee. No real debate, just headlines from Saracens propaganda parroted (no doubt so that the Party did not make them unhappy). Yes, I oppose this scheme, and I voted at the last election. Did you? I don't mind losing a fair fight if there is a decent standard of debate, and the whole thing does not reek of a fix. Ask yourself, if you saw what went on there in a third world country, what would you think?
Oh, and by the way, if you are happy to see £10 million plus from South Africa being spent in NW4/7 to give affluent Brits freebies, be ashamed. They're poorer in the townships than anyone is in Barnet, much poorer. Any Saracens protagonist who thinks it right for this "reverse aid" for Barnet is either short of a conscience, or spectacularly greedy. It ought not to be allowed.

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david T G says...
4:55pm Wed 8 Feb 12

Just out of curiosity, it is mentioned above that 'under 3,000 does not matter'.

The existing stadium can accommodate 3,000, so is it hoped by the objectors to scupper the plans and also stop the existing stadium being used up to its' present capacity as well?

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nw7resident says...
5:53pm Wed 8 Feb 12

Oh Mr Growser - you really dont know ANYTHING about Saracens do you? You have just demonstrated your total and utter ignorance.
The club has built houses for poor South African families - literally - the players built houses last year with their own hands- for people in townships - their assistant coach - a Doctor - gives up his free time to run an AIDS clinic there - and raise money for it and the whole squad just spent a week out there doing charitable work. For the last two years they gave money from their salaries every month voluntarily to help build an artificial turf pitch for the 'Field of Dreams' that they completed last month for the local kids from the township. And rugby players earn normal salaries - before you start quoting massive numbers at us.
It was all on the Saracens website. Perhaps you simply don't understand the fact that there really are good people in this world. Philanthropy and altruism are alive and well and you can find them deeply embedded at Saracens.

You are the one who should be 'deeply ashamed'. Next time before you start pointing accusing fingers, try a bit of humility yourself.

And I think you may have just opened up the flood gates for Saracens fans, who are finding it just as hard as everyone else at the moment, to put you straight about 'affluent rugby fans'.

Dont call those who support this scheme 'numpties' before you take a good long look at yourself.

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saracenman says...
6:08pm Wed 8 Feb 12

just sums up Mr Growser and Red Renault- they are shooting themselves in the foot the more they write in the mistaken belief that they are right!

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Lionel, Hendon NW4 says...
6:12pm Wed 8 Feb 12

Mr Growser - that is so far off the point its ridiculous. So you are now saying that poverty in Africa is partly to be blamed by Saracens?!

Listen to yourself! Yes Sherlock Holmes - Africa needs help and millions is pumped in every year to do just that. But on a completely different scale and story - so does Barnet - gangs, youth crime, the elderly......they all need support. Saracens are helping the community by investing £18million into it. That sweeping statement was nearly as crazy as Coleman's put together....Mr Growser I ask you please re-read your comment again and listen to how crazy it sounds. It has nothing to do with the hard work Saracens are preparing to hopefully do in NW4/7.

Do you honestly think things are 100% perfect in Barnet? Do you not think a company such as Saracens can come in and hope to do good amongst the community and be a local friend to everyone?

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Mr_Growser says...
8:14pm Wed 8 Feb 12

Yes, no doubt Saracens players do their bit for charity just like DJs, celebrities, and probably half the people in Barnet, one way or another. And when the CCI scheme gets going to run Copthall (after Boris has binned the present proposal) I'll be putting my hand in my pocket to help improve the site without any more damage to the Green Belt yet giving better facilties for the community and for Barnet Shaftesbury Harriers. Will you, Saracens supporters, put in (say) the price of a couple of pints of beer and a pie every week too, or do you expect the Government or the Council or the South Africans to pay so you can have you "entitlement"?
South Africa is a long, long way behind the UK - the GDP per head is A THIRD of the UK, infant mortality nearly ten times greater. Can you really say that £10 million is best spent here so Saracens supporters can (for a little while, anyway) go around saying that magnificent facilities are to be "free" for the well fed, NHS covered, better housed and far more affluent citizens of Barnet?
It really should not be allowed!

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nw7resident says...
9:34pm Wed 8 Feb 12

A little more conciliatory I see Mr Growser, after being shown up? And do tell me - apart from quoting statistics, exactly what YOU do for the people of south africa? How much of your salary do you give - and how often have you physically exhausted yourself to build houses for other people there- how much time have you given treating mothers, fathers and babies with AIDS -rather than slagging those very people off for being selfish and commercially motivated?

How dare you lecture Saracens or their supporters about how badly off the people of South Africa are - at least they are trying to help. People's precious time is more valuable than money. But they raise plenty of the latter as well as giving of the former...

You clearly know absolutely nothing about anyone even remotely associated with Saracens. So much of their activities are for the benefit of others, from hospices, to childrens charities, to supporting the disabled here in the UK to helping less fortunate souls in SA - If you did, you would never dare bring this subject up as a rod to beat them with. You're the one who has ended up with egg on your face.

And if Nigel Wray chooses to put £10 million of his own money into the community into which he grew up ... there are two little words you might choke on, but you should perhaps try - You might even get rid of some of that bitter taste you seem to have permanently in your mouth
Go on.
Two words
'Thank you'.

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david T G says...
9:41pm Wed 8 Feb 12

The forgoing comment really does defy any response! But, here goes..
Unbelievable!
By your logic, nothing should be provided for 'well fed, NHS covered, better housed and far more affluent citizens of Barnet'.
And yet you say you have a plan to do just that!!
By the way, will you be putting your hand in your pocket and investing £20million?
Please don't respond, I will post no more and your posts are getting more and more absurd.

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redrenault says...
10:26pm Wed 8 Feb 12

These people behind your bid are businessmen and astute at that. If these plans are purely altruistic and for philanthropic reasons why are they missing the PR opportunity of a life time !! Very out of character. The lack of controls and restrictions is scary ... The lack of a break clause even more so. The lack of fine detail about the small events traffic plan and controls just another issue that once again is asked but going unanswered .. This is an open forum but I do not see any response from EG Nigel Wray or Nick Leslau .. And the reason is ????????

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saracenman says...
10:39pm Wed 8 Feb 12

Redrenault you are just running out of arguments - you just spew bile.

As I said the more you write the more stupid you make yourself look.

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redrenault says...
5:45am Thu 9 Feb 12

Saracenman ... Once again no answer to the question ... No response .. No highlighting of sections within the plans- just in case I missed them ! That is why I am against the proposal despite all the good work the foundation does.

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saracenman says...
1:13pm Thu 9 Feb 12

Redrenault... yet again you make your ridiculous remarks based on hysteria and not long term success.

as I have said before you make Canute seem modern!

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redrenault says...
1:49pm Thu 9 Feb 12

saracenman .. still no answers then ? oh you cant ..

point 1 .....

point 2 ...

if by canute you mean I could bring wealth and custom to bare rather than sheer brutality .. hmm then I guess a thank you is in order. Although ravages of old age v wise choices in the end played a part more so in those days.In which case then I return the compliment and assume you are more of a Ephialtes my friend. Selling out, feeling betrayed and alone by the other neighbourly locals. !!

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